GH4 GH5: Seems they haven´t thought about DR at all. Awful DR?

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daktulus

Well-known member
When I look at the GH5 footage the dynamic range seems worse than that of the GH4. Having invested in MFT, to me that is very bad.
If they don´t improve the DR of the GH5 that would be a major disappointment.

Is there a chance that DR could still be improved or is the GH5 sensor not capable?[/COLOR]
 
Nick Driftwood, one of the GH5 beta testers has stated that the GH5 dynamic range is a big improvement over the dynamic range that the GH4 captures. Here's a comment from Dan Chung ( filmmaker and editor of NewsShooter.com ) stating what Nick Driftwood said to him...

"Nick tells me he believes the Lumix GH5 definitely has big improvements over the GH4 in DR and even though two thirds of a stop is probably where its at, it definitely appeared perceptually to be around a stop better."

Check the description for this video to see Dan's comment
 
"Check the description for this video to see Dan's comment"

That´s VERY subjective (he thinks it seems ...). When I look at the footage it seems the DR is worse.

Is there anything scientific out yet? Any word from Panasonic?

I´m afraid this will be a weak point.
 
Dave Draper said:
Do we know how many stops of dynamic range will be available yet?
Click to expand...

On paper both the GH4 and GH5 are supposed to be able to capture 12 F-stops of dynamic range when shooting with the internal V-log profile. In reality the GH4 can only record about 11 F-stops because of the amount of noise in it's V-log recordings. The GH5 appears to have no problems recording internal V-log footage, so I suspect you are getting close to the full 12 F-stops from the GH5.

Tom Antos recently posted a camera test last month that included a dynamic range test for the GH4, where he clearly shows that it can only capture 11 F-stops when recording internally because of the V-log noise. ( what's a little surprising is that he also tested the Blackmagic Ursa Mini 4K camera which only recorded 10 F-stops of dynamic range in his test )

 
daktulus said:
When I look at the footage it seems the DR is worse.
Click to expand...

...And I would say exactly the opposite. I'm definitely seeing more dynamic range in some of the GH5 shots, which seems to depend on the person using the camera.

The last shot from this video ( graded from Luke Neumann's free GH5 downloads ) looks WAY better to me than anything I've seen come out of the GH4 without an external recorder.


...Also the night street shot from the beginning of Luke Neumann's own edit looks to be holding WAY more detail than I've seen from any GH4 shot made without an external recorder.

 
daktulus said:
When I look at the GH5 footage the dynamic range seems worse than that of the GH4. Having invested in MFT, to me that is very bad.
If they don´t improve the DR of the GH5 that would be a major disappointment.

Is there a chance that DR could still be improved or is the GH5 sensor not capable?[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Which footage and what clips are you referring to? Just curious.

One of the head Panasonic guys talks about Dynamic Range in an interview. I forget which one, but its a sit down 1on1 interview with a Japanese speaker subtitled. In it he says DR should be "slightly better" than GH4 but its very close, and they consider it spec-wise to be mostly the same.
 
daktulus said:
"Check the description for this video to see Dan's comment"

That´s VERY subjective (he thinks it seems ...). When I look at the footage it seems the DR is worse.

Is there anything scientific out yet? Any word from Panasonic?

I´m afraid this will be a weak point.
Click to expand...

There's no way to make your assessment based solely on the footage in the wild today. Until we can see DR charted, we won't know. Still, it is almost unthinkable that it will be worse. Most likely it will be almost the same, maybe a stop better in real world practical terms, because of better processing.
 
12 stops of 422/10 bit data seems to be reasonable.

from the listed specs, the gh5 doesn't move the ball forward on dynamic range.

from the listed specs, the gh5 does move the ball forward on 4k/60p 422/10bit internal recording.

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
 
I also think its noteworthy to keep in mind the practical effect on useable image quality that the more robust codec and processing has. When footage can be pushed and pulled much better, with stronger shadows, highlights, midtones and compression around the gradiations, it really does make a large difference in perceived DR.

I would argue that 12 stops in 4:2:2 10bit is better than 13 stops in 4:2:0 8-bit.

Granted you can always use an external recorder, but I think the main selling point of the GH5 is workflow. For some this is a non issue, for me, using a bulky external recorder would REALLY hurt my workflow and shooting style, so 10bit 422 internal + all of the other awesome workflow benefits of the GH5 make the compromise in losing a potential 1-2 stops in DR much more worth it.

YMMV.
 
robfilms said:
12 stops of 422/10 bit data seems to be reasonable.

from the listed specs, the gh5 doesn't move the ball forward on dynamic range.

from the listed specs, the gh5 does move the ball forward on 4k/60p 422/10bit internal recording.

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
Click to expand...
There is a interview with Panasonic Japan where the say a slight improvement in DR.
 
slidemaster said:
There is a interview with Panasonic Japan where the say a slight improvement in DR.
Click to expand...

It also depends on the camera's encoder. The GH4 does not handle V-log internal recording very well so you end up with very noisy images with the horrible green-magenta mixed in. From everything I've read from people who have shot with the current GH5 beta camera, the GH5 has no problems recording V-log internally, and most of the horrible noise is gone. I honestly think that the GH5 will show better DR than the GH4 because of this, but we likely won't know scientifically how true this is until March.
 
I posted this hoping there would be a way to get the word out to Panasonic, so they might improve DR before the final release.
Maybe it´s to late, but maybe if many people want wide DR, Panasonic listens.

For me all of the gimmicks are not as important as good picture quality. DR and skintone are important.
Already owning an external recorder I was mainly hoping for wide DR.
I think Panasonic listened to the wrong people developing the GH5. Wide DR is one of the biggest selling points these days, it is also the key to high quality pictures.
 
daktulus said:
I posted this hoping there would be a way to get the word out to Panasonic, so they might improve DR before the final release.
Click to expand...

If it comes close to the full 12 F-stops I will be happy. ( I think this is a reasonable expectation for the finished GH5 camera )
 
daktulus said:
I posted this hoping there would be a way to get the word out to Panasonic, so they might improve DR before the final release. Maybe it´s to late, but maybe if many people want wide DR, Panasonic listens...
Click to expand...
Camera's DR isn't exactly like a leather strap. Some things just can't be added on just like that.

PS. Of course, they could do the recently popular multiple exposure trick and get it up in the video mode just they do in a photo.
 
Yes, it's way too late. That's a baseline sensor issue. More DR could have been achievable if they opted for a 12mp sensor to increase the size of the photosites.

I also would have loved to see improved DR, but it's not to be. On the other hand, keep in mind that most people used the GH4 in a way that gave them around 10 stops (internal 4:2:0 8-bit, CineV or poorly exposed vlog internal). In that sense, prepare to see a solid 1-2 stops improvement in DR from what you are used to seeing attributed to the GH4.
 
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