GH5 Gh5 2.1 firmware update; film in VLOG or HLG

S

spikespiegel

Member
Hi guys, just did the update and I plan on filming at the 400Mbps All intra mode. Question is, for HDR delivery, is it better to keep it in V-Log preset or the new HLG preset? Vlog is definitely the flatter profile, wouldn't that allow for better grade than the HLG mode, which seems to have natural colors baked in? I'm confused about this, any insight appreciated.
 
HLG for instant delivery with as little post work as possible, and V-LOG L for the best quality image when you've got the time to properly color-correct and grade your footage.
 
For 10 bit HDR output the HLG uses more image data gradations than vlog-L. In my eyes HLG has less noise too. I think the dynamic range is the same. Vlog-L just looks flatter because it looses data in whites and blacks.
 
Anyone know if HGL uses the full range of IRE vs vlog that cuts off at 75 IRE or something like that? Curious if this is why folks are getting more out of HGL footage than vlog in their grades?
 
c3hammer said:
Anyone know if HGL uses the full range of IRE vs vlog that cuts off at 75 IRE or something like that? Curious if this is why folks are getting more out of HGL footage than vlog in their grades?
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Here is a comparison:

compare-nominal.jpg

Note that V-Log-L is a limited version of V-Log.
 
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I've found that using HLG in a Rec709 timeline/colour space is giving fantastic DR (same as V-LogL) plus more tonal precision thanks to using 5-95% of IRE as opposed to V-LogL's 16-79% IRE. It's my main goto profile now other than when shooting high speed 8 bit, where I switch to Cine-D.

Here's a couple of samples showing extreme dynamic range I shot recently, with a conversion LUT I created (Leeming LUT One) applied to fix the colours and curve back to Rec709 space:

http://downloads.visceralpsyche.com/GH5_HLG_v501_samples/HLG_1.22.2.png (24MB)

http://downloads.visceralpsyche.com/GH5_HLG_v501_samples/HLG_1.24.1.png (24MB)

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Paul :)
 
Shirozina said:
Never understood why V-LOG L is limited to 16-79% IRE?
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It is for compatibility with VLOG of bigger Panasonic cameras. It uses the same part and shape of curve than cine camera but because GH4/GH5 has so much less dynamic range the upper and higher parts ar limited. Thats why it is called VLOG-L (lite, limited or little).
 
visceralpsyche said:
I've found that using HLG in a Rec709 timeline/colour space is giving fantastic DR (same as V-LogL) plus more tonal precision thanks to using 5-95% of IRE as opposed to V-LogL's 16-79% IRE. It's my main goto profile now other than when shooting high speed 8 bit, where I switch to Cine-D.
Click to expand...

Do you find HLG having less noise than vlog-L or cineD?
 
Vesku said:
It is for compatibility with VLOG of bigger Panasonic cameras. It uses the same part and shape of curve than cine camera but because GH4/GH5 has so much less dynamic range the upper and higher parts ar limited. Thats why it is called VLOG-L (lite, limited or little).
Click to expand...

Thanks - VLOG-L (less)
 
Vesku said:
Do you find HLG having less noise than vlog-L or cineD?
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It's basically got the same noise characteristic as V-LogL, but I find it more pleasant because there's more tonal precision between adjacent tones, meaning the noise is smoother.

Cheers,

Paul :)
 
c3hammer said:
What are we looking at there Cary? I'm not familiar with that type of graph. Also what is the lower HGL curve? With a lut applied maybe?

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...
I graphed the transfer functions.

HLG:

b93a34cd688ecbcdfd3c3c4776a80965fff1fed3


HLG (Nominal Range):

87c9f8989f88b57ae871f1f689a1bfc703056137


Rec.709:

af24bcfda420c520edb3204679868e616cf6fa76


Comparing HGL and V-Log fully extended:

curves-extended.jpg
 
Cary Knoop said:
Linear input (X) to non linear output (Y) values.
Click to expand...

This is theory but VLOG is different than VLOG-L.

How works GH5 curves in practise? I think VLOG-L and HLG records the same amount of sensor image but HLG uses better the 10bit scale to get smoother gradations. When using VLOG-L for 10bit HDR we are using less than 10bit information in the first place. In HLG the camera has already rendered the HDR image from RAW sensor data.
 
Vesku said:
How works GH5 curves in practise? I think VLOG-L and HLG records the same amount of sensor image but HLG uses better the 10bit scale to get smoother gradations. When using VLOG-L for 10bit HDR we are using less than 10bit information in the first place.
Click to expand...
It seems to me that 10 bit (which is four times as much information as 8 bit) is sufficient to record all the gradations.

HLG definitely records less in the shadows.

Note also that while the GH5 cuts V-Log at 80 IRE at full sensor saturation at regular exposures spikes are seen above this value.
 
In all my testing for HLG vs V-LogL, I've found they have the same dynamic range. Both see equally into the shadows.

I have seen information (usually channel spill) creep above 79% in V-LogL, which is why my current V-LogL LUT allows for that spill.

Cheers,

Paul :)
 
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