GH2 GH3 w/ HDMI External Recorder

N

nathannguyen59

Active member
So I'm debating whether or not the HDMI external recording the GH3 offers is worth the price.

Aren't external recorders like the Atomos Ninja 2 at least 1000$

This doesn't include the gear that is needed to rig the monitor to a tripod or some sort of rig.

So in reality
GH3 $1300
External Recorder $1000 (at least)
Total: $2300

Not significantly cheaper than the BMC (without regarding the price of SSD's)

What do you guys think of this?
 
Yeah, why bother worrying about an external recorder, when the likelihood exists that the onboard recording is probably hugely improved over what the GH2 has? That is one of the main points of the GH3, after all.
 
Even with a hacked Gh2 I was starting to get to the point where it just worth the hassle. I have a visual effects background and honestly the 4:2:0 thing doesn't really bother me that much anymore. Myself and filtering software have gotten so good at working with progressive 4:2:0 that it doesn't phase me all that much. The day when I shot a greenscreen piece at work with Red and my hacked GH1 just for fun and the Gh1 worked almost as well as the 4:4:4 from the Red I stopped worrying about it as much.

I know sometimes you really must have the cleanest material possible but it really is a hassle.

By the way one guy in the comments of some website mentioned he heard from a Panasonic rep that the HDMI output on the GH3 was clean uncompressed. What that means could be up in the air yet because technically the GH2 was uncompressed as well. It was just messed with to make it fit 60i and they dropped the color to 4:2:0. But there is a good chance they listened to the complaints about making the HDMI port normal like pretty much every other tiny camcorder made in the last five years. That still doesn't mean native 24p over HDMI however. Most cameras even in the pro divisions don't send native 24p over HDMI. You may get a clean signal from the GH3 but you would have to deal with pulldown later. Again a hassle.
 
GH3 = Run and Gun, quicker workflow
BMC = Slower Productions, more tedious workflow

Also, BMC doesn't do slow motion and has no removable internal battery. The GH3 does!

So I think both compliment each other VERY WELL!
 
The Red is neither 4:4:4 nor 4:2:2 nor 4:2:0. It's raw. It doesn't do any color subsampling, so any usage of those terms is inaccurate. However, in terms of how much color is in the actual image, it's capable of delivering something that's about halfway between what 4:2:0 would have and what 4:2:2 would have.
 
Resolution is important to consider - 4:2:0 @ 4K Y'CbCr has more color information than 1080p @ 4:4:4 Y'CbCr or RGB
 
If you're going the expense and complexity of an external recorder, then why not get a BMC as well? Making the assumption that you're saving on the purchase of Resolve, you're at about the same cost.

Judging from what we're seeing so far, I don't know if an external recorder will be that big a deal on the GH3 ( apart from as a back up ).
 
Barry_Green said:
It's raw. It doesn't do any color subsampling, so any usage of those terms is inaccurate.
Click to expand...

Got it.

it's capable of delivering something that's about halfway between what 4:2:0 would have and what 4:2:2 would have.
Click to expand...

That part seems odd, though. I'd expect enough color info from RAW to produce something similar to RGB 4:4:4 when saved out as Uncompressed.
 
Jim Simon said:
That part seems odd, though. I'd expect enough color info from RAW to produce something similar to RGB 4:4:4 when saved out as Uncompressed.
Click to expand...

4:4:4 means that you effectively have a full sample of red, green, and blue for every pixel. On the other hand, a RAW capture of a Bayer pattern sensor only has one of each for every pixel. The RGB values for each pixel have to be interpolated from the sorrounding pixels when the RAW data is de-bayered. So, RAW is still using under-sampled color, but in a different way from 4:2:0, although the amount of chroma resolution is roughly comparable between the two.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Jim Simon said:
Got it.



That part seems odd, though. I'd expect enough color info from RAW to produce something similar to RGB 4:4:4 when saved out as Uncompressed.
Click to expand...

Because of a bayer pattern the raw sensor only grabs red for every other pixel and blue for every other pixel. So right away with raw you have half the amount of color pixels. Not much different then 4:2:0 just arranged a bit different. Bayer however gets interpolated where the in between pixels are guessed. This is why the final raw recording has 4:4:4 unique pixels but they have been interpolated. Not much different then taking 4:2:0 and using software to interpolate the missing chroma pixels. I use to do visual effects work with 4:1:1 DV which was a pain but I would interpolate the chroma and turn the image back into 4:4:4. It only worked so well because DV threw out so much color and it was the most god awful chroma arrangement anybody could ever come up with. Hated 3:1:1 as well but we won't go there. Progressive 4:2:0 when done the right way is actually very easy to interpolate and turn back into 4:4:4. Even the very simple process of slightly chroma blurring can make a key almost perfect and like working with 4:4:4.
 
AdrianF said:
If you're going the expense and complexity of an external recorder, then why not get a BMC as well? Making the assumption that you're saving on the purchase of Resolve, you're at about the same cost.

Judging from what we're seeing so far, I don't know if an external recorder will be that big a deal on the GH3 ( apart from as a back up ).
Click to expand...

Because the BMCC is also raw and suffers from the same issue as Red except it is only 2.5k. Since the BMCC is also a bayer pattern camera you have to factor in right away any color you have is interpolated from half the red and half the blue. Honestly I doubt the chroma detail with the BMCC will be any better then the Panasonic cameras. Even though the BMCC may record 4:4:4 that is from an interpolated source. GH1/GH2/GH3 material with the chroma interpolated should be about the same really.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Because the BMCC is also raw and suffers from the same issue as Red except it is only 2.5k. Since the BMCC is also a bayer pattern camera you have to factor in right away any color you have is interpolated from half the red and half the blue. Honestly I doubt the chroma detail with the BMCC will be any better then the Panasonic cameras. Even though the BMCC may record 4:4:4 that is from an interpolated source. GH1/GH2/GH3 material with the chroma interpolated should be about the same really.
Click to expand...

To add to that, the BMC apparently suffers from some mild chroma aliasing on fine detail due to the lack of an OLPF.

Besides, the GH3 + external recorder doesn't really seem any less cumbersome to me than a BMC + external battery. By all accounts, you really need an external battery for the BMC.
 
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