GH2 video quality query...

R

r10k

New member
I've been looking at either a t2i or GH2 for video (and some imagery), and despite the GH2 having some obvious advantages over the t2i, the comments I read about the GH2's video quality being so much better than the Canon don't seem too visible to me. I think the t2i's video tends to look better out of the camera.

Am I not alone in this, or am I missing something?
 
I have both and I am much happier with the GH2. Resolves better, no moire, great in low light, easy to use... LOVE the flip screen and the form factor....

Just my .02

Tony
 
What video are you comparing? I completely disagree, but maybe there is some t2i footage that I have not seen??
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Most of the stuff on Youtube, and a lot of stuff on Vimeo. The colour of the GH2 videos doesn't seem as punchy (possibly the wrong term) as the t2i ones.

Example of the GH2 (http://www.vimeo.com/17245744) versus the t2i (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khrtaGfIdMs). Those are more random picks than anything, (videos in snow seem to make colours look punchy anyway) but they show that the colours in the GH2 videos don't exactly pop, even though there's a lot of colour in it. Pretty much every Canon video I've seen has made me say "Oooo" while the GH2 ones haven't struck me with the wow factor. I think it's a subtle thing of colour saturation and contrast, but I can't exactly put my finger on it.

Resolves better, no moire, great in low light, easy to use...
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No argument there... it's just to my eye, the Canon videos have a nice look about them. I guess it's just a personal taste thing ;)
 
weird... to my taste the canon colors have all the things i hate in digital video.
opposite to GH2. maybe what you call "pop" is what i call non filmic look.
 
Hmm i don't know... its a weird thing but i agree a bit with r10k on the peculiar differences. I mean honestly post grading can give you pretty much the look you want anyway. (er possibly!)

I don't havea gh2 and i dont have a canon - my ladyfriend Sarah got a t2i as a gift though - and i had a play with it! As someone whose used most camcorders (Sony/Canon/Panny) and an adamant Panny fan of the hvx200 and hpx500 etc, ive got to say, that although the gh2 will and does rock, it just doesnt strike me as much. There is some difference that has made me go ooh and ah over the canon stuff just that little bit more than the gh2 stuff.

Now im sooo for filmic and organic looks (especially) that i even used SD lenses on the hpx hehe and a brevis with the hvx, so im no slouch on that nor mysti eyed over any new purchase. That said, the difference is minor, and sure while the gh2 won't have as bad, some of the technical issues, i think its important most of all - to go with the camera that makes u go wow inside.

Thats the model that will inspire you to get out and shoot stuff, be that a gh2 a canon or a jam jar. What is wrong, is for folks to ***** about bit rates and technical issues as if this should be the overriding choice.

maybe what you call "pop" is what i call non filmic look.
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Oh please! not the dreaded non-filmic look! ;) Incidentally R10k this is an insane question to post in a gh2 subforum! But just for you R10k just look at these popping colours meow! http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150381423505454&set=a.10150380904105454.597684.545135453
 
r10k said:
Example of the GH2 (http://www.vimeo.com/17245744) versus the t2i (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khrtaGfIdMs). Those are more random picks than anything, (videos in snow seem to make colours look punchy anyway) but they show that the colours in the GH2 videos don't exactly pop, even though there's a lot of colour in it. Pretty much every Canon video I've seen has made me say "Oooo" while the GH2 ones haven't struck me with the wow factor. I think it's a subtle thing of colour saturation and contrast, but I can't exactly put my finger on it.
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It is tough to compare a video shot in full soft daylight to a video shot in dark hard artificial light with many different sources and kinds of sources. I have never considered color to be one of Canon DSLRs strengths, part of why it is often suggested to operate with saturation turned down 2-3 notches. Skin tones often go a bit reddish/orangish in midtones and yellowish toward highlights, and you run the risk of blowing out skin tones easily with out of the box settings and HTP off. That particular video you referenced just seems to have its contrast and saturation left set relatively high, which may work alright for such a soft, high-key scene, but I wouldnt recommend in most environments. If anything, I find I occasionally prefer the looks I see from the GH2 as it seems to have a more pleasing contrast and actual sharpness (not artificial sharpening) out of the box, but I will be able to test this more when I have one in my hands.

I have owned 5D/7Ds for over 2 years and have gone to great lengths to get what I feel are pleasing gamma curves and color out of them, with some luck in my custom picture styles, but am never quite happy with the options in camera. That isn't to say canons neutral style with -4 con -2 sat isnt quite a nice look for most projects, it is, and its better than a lot of cameras have, I just think it could use significant improvements in many areas.

The last thing I want is for colors to "pop", I dont want actor's faces to look like they are about to explode with color, I want them to look natural, maybe even muted and undistracting. It's bad enough that many NLEs (FCP especially) screw up the gamma/contrast when decoding h264 footage and that most people leave their HDTVs set up with standard settings which usually leave saturation and contrast cranked up, I dont want my camera to have cranked contrast and saturation as well...
 
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Comparing apples to oranges is nonsense really. There are so many variables in the equation like taste/shooting style, location, light(ing), in-camera settings, lens (and aperture used), filter(s), post production work (or lack of) etc.

There are also a lot more talents out there shooting Canon. I'm pretty certain this will balance out over time...

These clips might change your opinion about GH cameras:

http://vimeo.com/18065686
http://vimeo.com/14576772
http://vimeo.com/12831838
http://vimeo.com/15864559
http://vimeo.com/14146220

 
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I have a GH13 and a 5D... and I've numerous people (mostly non-technical, normal viewers) tell me that they like the Canon look out of the camera much better than the GH13.

But if you're like me at all... I'm not shooting for the "out of camera" look. I compare the cameras by how they look after I grade them... and I think you can a lot of that pop back with some in camera tweaking and some post grading. I've intercut 5D and GH13 footage over and over and I think the footage looks identical.

As for me... I'd take a little less out of camera "pop" and no moire any day :)
 
I am constantly amazed by how accurate the colors look on the gh2.

Some people like how bose speakers sound because they add emphasis to the highs and low end. However mixing on them would be a disaster.

IMO It's better to start with an accurate source, then tweak it from there.
 
A bit late back to this thread, but... thanks for the thoughts guys.

Actually I will just add that these videos mentioned...

http://vimeo.com/18065686
http://vimeo.com/14576772
http://vimeo.com/12831838
http://vimeo.com/15864559
http://vimeo.com/14146220
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Don't do anything to alleviate my current thinking that GH vids don't pop. Decent grading and editing, but compared to a simple t2i vid like this- http://www.vimeo.com/18605718 (despite a couple of clips), they just don't grab me. I'm not sure if it's the unnatural look of the grading that's making me think this way, or if it's the contrast/saturation thing mentioned before.

As for me... I'd take a little less out of camera "pop" and no moire any day
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Wrong forum obviously, but... does anyone know of a good example of Canon cameras struggling with this? :)
 
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Jockomo said:
I am constantly amazed by how accurate the colors look on the gh2.

Some people like how bose speakers sound because they add emphasis to the highs and low end. However mixing on them would be a disaster.

IMO It's better to start with an accurate source, then tweak it from there.
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Can you tell me please what settings you use to get the color accuracy you are amazed at, i have tried them all from standard through and am not 100% happy yet .
 
lol doesnt it remind you of the hvx200 and ex1 arguments lol how ironic!

Hvx users 'but we have panny colour mojo'
ex1 users - 'but the colours are more accurate better first for grading'

and so on :)
 
You're certainly entitled to your opinion r10k, but the examples I posted might not have been ideal. I just wanted to post some 'vibrant' stuff to show you what's possible. I even agree that the results are in many ways unnatural (the first clip being an extreme example of what can be done in post), but I would argue that a video that comes directly out of a Canon camera is unnatural as well. In the end, it's really all a matter of taste.

What you should do is test both cameras under the same conditions and go from there. You'll realize quickly why more and more people prefer GH cameras...

@Saddler: No problem. I'm not sure about the exact procedure Yann went through, but you might find some info on his website. He also posted some before and after shots.
 
I come from the musician/location audio side of the fence, and I've only recently started to train my eye to pick up the nuances and shortcomings of a moving image.

I understand where r10k is coming from. I've been trying to decide which camera to buy, and the GH2 is the front runner. I think it has a really nice picture, but I'm really sold on its size, the 20mm lens option, the articulating screen, and the audio meters + level control. Having less moire is HUGE advantage as well. But I often come across footage from the T2i on Vimeo and elsewhere that really impresses me. More often than not, it has that pop to it where GH2 footage sometimes lacks.

I learn a lot on DVXuser, and if nothing else, this thread is interesting to me to hear from people who feel like the image performance from the Canon cameras is too unnatural. I hadn't thought about it from that point of view before. This is a common discussion with audio equipment, microphone choice, etc.

r10k - I've shot a half dozen HDSLR projects on the Nikon D90 and the D300s, and I've done the production sound on many projects that used the Canon 7D and 5D mkII. I can say with 100% certainty that moire is a very real problem for these cameras. It's the kind of problem that will rear its head nearly every time you shoot. That's been my experience anyhow.
 
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