GH2 official discussion thread

[mpgxsvcd]

IF you somehow would manage to hack the GH2 do you think you would be able to add 50/60p @ 1080? Since that is what the sensor outputs.

Damn, how many times are you going to ask that? The camera isn't even out yet and you want to know when the hacked firmware will be ready? Heck the Panasonic firmware isn't even really finalized yet. What makes you think he can hack it before they even finalize it?

What exactly are you planning on doing with 1080p @ 50/60 FPS? You can't stream it. You can't really burn it to a Blu-ray. You can't play it on most computers. Plus it will not have a high enough bit-rate to prevent artifacts. So what is this urgent need you have for 1080p @ 50/60 FPS? Do you want to do slow motion? Then use 720p @ 60 FPS. It is more than capable of producing excellent slow motion shots. Heck, even the 720p @ 30 FPS on my GF1 works for slow motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kznlP83ISFI&hd=1

If you really have a need for 1080p @ 60 FPS then buy the Panasonic camcorder that does it. That camera is designed specifically for what you need. Otherwise you will just have to wait.

 

[tcglog]

Damn, how many times are you going to ask that?

An answer might satisfy my huge needs.

The camera isn't even out yet and you want to know when the hacked firmware will be ready? Heck the Panasonic firmware isn't even really finalized yet. What makes you think he can hack it before they even finalize it?

Actually that is not what I was asking at all. I was asking about whether 50/60p would be possible since the sensor outputs it. I'm not experienced enough on hacking cameras to know if it is easy, difficult or even possible to "override" the pathway of turning 50p -> 50i.

What exactly are you planning on doing with 1080p @ 50/60 FPS? You can't stream it. You can't really burn it to a Blu-ray. You can't play it on most computers. Plus it will not have a high enough bit-rate to prevent artifacts. So what is this urgent need you have for 1080p @ 50/60 FPS? Do you want to do slow motion? Then use 720p @ 60 FPS. It is more than capable of producing excellent slow motion shots. Heck, even the 720p @ 30 FPS on my GF1 works for slow motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kznlP83ISFI&hd=1

See, the problem really is that I don't want to use

-one mode to get the best "unmoving" video but with crappy motion
-one mode to get the best moving video but with crappy resolution
-one mode to get a little of both but with interlacing artifacts

1080p50/60 would be one mode to have it all in one package, no compromises. THAT is why I'm interested in it. And what do you mean about the bitrate not being high enough? The TM700 has 28Mb/s, the GH1 was hacked to at least 40Mb/s while being stable.

If you really have a need for 1080p @ 60 FPS then buy the Panasonic camcorder that does it. That camera is designed specifically for what you need. Otherwise you will just have to wait.

And I would get better stills with my P&S, no thanks, the GH2 with 50p1080 would have it all. I am planning on waiting, hell, I am considering waiting for the GH3 so if you re-read my post I was not with a single word asking WHEN it would be done. I was simply asking if it is even worth to wait for the GH2 hack because I wanted to know if it is likely/unlikely or impossible to add 1080p50.

Is it really too much to ask? Just a couple of clarifying words from the master would save us both a shitload of time typing this.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

The problem is you ask it over and over again. The hack will happen when Panasonic posts the firmware online and not a moment before then.

You absolutely need 24p and 60p to get the best low motion and high motion video. 60p will not be as good in low light as 24p. 720p @ 60 FPS has more bits per pixel than 1080p @ 60 FPS. That is why I say you should use that mode.

Learn about the questions you are asking instead of just asking them over and over again. The reason you haven't received an answer to your questions yet is because no one knows the answer right now since nothing is even finalized yet.

 

[Svart]

Actually it is a bit much to ask. You are asking for someone to predict the future. The short answer is (one that you have probably read but don't want to hear) that we don't know WHEN/IF the GH2 CAN/WILL be hacked. There is no way to predict this at all right now. You can bet that Panny has learned it's lesson from the GH1 hack and the firmware for the GH2 and future devices will be unhackable. It's unfortunate but most likely true.

Besides, if you base your purchases on guesses and hopes, then you are most likely going to be disappointed. Just look at the folks who wanted a free ride and bought unhackable GH1s based on hope that they *might* get a hackable version.. There are no guarantees in this game.

 

[tcglog]

The problem is you ask it over and over again.

As I said an answer might satisfy my needs.

The hack will happen when Panasonic posts the firmware online and not a moment before then.

I don't care when it will happen, nor did I ask that.

You absolutely need 24p and 60p to get the best low motion and high motion video. 60p will not be as good in low light as 24p. 720p @ 60 FPS has more bits per pixel than 1080p @ 60 FPS. That is why I say you should use that mode.

Thanks for that information! More like this, less bitching.

Learn about the questions you are asking instead of just asking them over and over again.

I am here to learn. That is why I ask.

The reason you haven't received an answer to your questions yet is because no one knows the answer right now since nothing is even finalized yet.

Well Vitali HAS TO KNOW since he already hacked the GH1. Is it even in theory possible to make an intervention between the part where the sensor outputs 50p, and the part where it gets interlaced to 50i.

 

[Barry_Green]

Okay, here's the answer: at this time it is not possible to hack the GH2 at all. Not a little bit, not a lot, not to enable anything.

So the answer you are looking for is: no, Vitaliy will not be able to hack the GH2.

Now, if something changes in the future, we'll hear about it. But as things stand now, Vitaliy can't hack a 1.34-rom GH1, and you can bet your farm that they've put the same restriction in the GH2. There will be no hacking of the GH2 now or in the future.

Unless something changes.

 

[tcglog]

Actually it is a bit much to ask. You are asking for someone to predict the future. The short answer is (one that you have probably read but don't want to hear) that we don't know WHEN/IF the GH2 CAN/WILL be hacked. There is no way to predict this at all right now. You can bet that Panny has learned it's lesson from the GH1 hack and the firmware for the GH2 and future devices will be unhackable. It's unfortunate but most likely true.

Thanks for the info, yes I'm aware of that. My question was more like IF GH2 can be hacked, is it possible to make an intervention before the data from 50p is lost in transition to 50i. I am not at all asking if or when it will be hacked.

Besides, if you base your purchases on guesses and hopes, then you are most likely going to be disappointed. Just look at the folks who wanted a free ride and bought unhackable GH1s based on hope that they *might* get a hackable version.. There are no guarantees in this game.

You are right, I would not purchase a camera hoping it would be hacked or get a firmware update some day. I am still considering even waiting for the GH3 so that is not a problem. I am just interested if what I asked would be possible. Thanks for your input.

 

[tcglog]

Okay, here's the answer: at this time it is not possible to hack the GH2 at all. Not a little bit, not a lot, not to enable anything.

So the answer you are looking for is: no, Vitaliy will not be able to hack the GH2.

Now, if something changes in the future, we'll hear about it. But as things stand now, Vitaliy can't hack a 1.34-rom GH1, and you can bet your farm that they've put the same restriction in the GH2. There will be no hacking of the GH2 now or in the future.

Unless something changes.

Thanks for your input. Even though you are a moderator I get the feeling that people deliberately try to misunderstand me. You didn't actually answer the question I was asking. As I said in the previous post my question is: IF GH2 can someday/somehow be hacked, is it even in theory possible to make an intervention before the data from 50p is lost in transition to 50i. Since the GH1 has already been hacked this has got to be known. Please someone understand what I am asking. I am not asking IF it can be hacked or WHEN it can be hacked.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Your last post shows that you really are not learning from what we are saying. Vitaliy doesn’t have the camera. He has no way of knowing what the sensor is capable of or not capable of until he holds the camera in his hands.

He has already stated that he is extremely busy and barely has enough time to work on the GH1 hacks. If he had responded to every impatient question like yours then the GH1 hack would never have happened.

If you really want this hack to happen sooner than later I would suggest that you donate the last $200 Vitaliy stated that he needs to buy a GH2. Then just sit back and wait for the hack to come.

So if you want to waste Vitaliy’s time and continue asking your questions go for it. After seeing most of his recent posts in response to stupid questions I bet the only response you will get is “You’re an Idiot”.

 

[Svart]

Ok lets put it this way. IF we could hack the code, we still don't have the original source code. It's easy to make changes to values in tables to get things like higher bitrates in the decrypted code but it's very hard to add features that are not already present without the source code. IF the camera is hackable and IF there is a routine that does most of what we want, it MIGHT be possible IF the hardware can support such datarates.

 

[Barry_Green]

Okay, well, let's take a different angle on the question:

Nobody can possibly answer the question you're asking. You're asking a question that nobody here can possibly, under any circumstances, know the answer to. The camera doesn't exist yet in a finalized form. Even when it is officially released, there will be no way to look at the firmware. And even after a firmware update is released, it will be locked.

So you're asking a question that is not answerable. Which is why you haven't been getting an answer.

 

[Barry_Green]

is it even in theory possible to make an intervention before the data from 50p is lost in transition to 50i.

Okay, now we'll go further into this. is it "even in theory possible"? Yes, it's possible. Reel-Stream did this kind of thing with the Andromeda.

Will it happen? No it will not happen. Nobody's going to go hacking apart a $900 still camera to attach custom-made hardware directly to the chip.

If you want 1080/50p and/or 1080/60p, you'd be infinitely better off getting a camera that supports it, such as the TM700 or the AF100 (which doesn't direclty support 1080/50p playback, but can be made to do so).

 

[tcglog]

Ok lets put it this way. IF we could hack the code, we still don't have the original source code. It's easy to make changes to values in tables to get things like higher bitrates in the decrypted code but it's very hard to add features that are not already present without the source code. IF the camera is hackable and IF there is a routine that does most of what we want, it MIGHT be possible IF the hardware can support such datarates.

Ding ding! We have a winner. Thanks for your answer and thanks for being the only one who understood what I was asking. I was thinking that since the GH1 hack was able to use the 24/25p sensor output and removing the interlacing wrapper (50i/60i) the same thing would apply for the GH2 i.e. using the 50/60p sensor output and removing the interlacing wrapper (50i/60i).

 

[tcglog]

Your last post shows that you really are not learning from what we are saying. Vitaliy doesn’t have the camera. He has no way of knowing what the sensor is capable of or not capable of until he holds the camera in his hands.

He has already stated that he is extremely busy and barely has enough time to work on the GH1 hacks. If he had responded to every impatient question like yours then the GH1 hack would never have happened.

Still don't get it do you? Sigh, i tried...

If you really want this hack to happen sooner than later I would suggest that you donate the last $200 Vitaliy stated that he needs to buy a GH2. Then just sit back and wait for the hack to come.

So if you want to waste Vitaliy’s time and continue asking your questions go for it. After seeing most of his recent posts in response to stupid questions I bet the only response you will get is “You’re an Idiot”.

Yeah I'll be sure to donate money when the guy doesn't even bother to answer my question. Not the best way if you are looking for donations.


EDIT: have to go, will respond to the rest of the replys later

 

[Svart]

Ding ding! We have a winner. Thanks for your answer and thanks for being the only one who understood what I was asking. I was thinking that since the GH1 hack was able to use the 24/25p sensor output and removing the interlacing wrapper (50i/60i) the same thing would apply for the GH2 i.e. using the 50/60p sensor output and removing the interlacing wrapper (50i/60i).

Something similar was done with the Native 24P hack. It resulted in something that is usable but not stable. There isn't much that can be done at this point because the code cannot be hacked further without much more information about the source. It's possible that IF the code were hackable, that over time, Vitaliy could figure out a way to get the raw 50p out before interlacing, however it *could* also be of unknown quality since the post processing could be done on the interlaced data, or any number of strange things could be happening.

it would be just like the start of the GH1 hack project was. Just a project to see if it's even possible to do stuff with the code. If something cool happens, then great, but let's not hold our breath.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Still don't get it do you? Sigh, i tried...

You asked a question to which everyone else has responded "No one knows the answer to that question". And yet you insist it can be done and you just want someone to acknowledge that you are right. Someone, basically says "Anything is possible" and you accept that as the answer to the ultimate question? You are daft, aren't you?

I fully understand your question but the answer is still the same. No one knows what things Panasonic has done to prevent us from capturing the data before it gets interlaced because no one has a camera with the final firmware yet.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Will it happen? No it will not happen. Nobody's going to go hacking apart a $900 still camera to attach custom-made hardware directly to the chip.

I won't be so sure about it in place of Panasonic

Plus not all guys at Lumix division are certain that hack prevention is good for them. They are still thinking about it

As for tcglog question.
It had been answered at least two times in this thread

 

[omnidecay]

Plus not all guys at Lumix division are certain that hack prevention is good for them. They are still thinking about it
)

I've been thinking this ever since I found out about the GH13. "Why hasn't Panasonic been loving this"?...I mean with the hack, Panasonic is the maker of arguably the "best" DSLR for video to date. I'm not saying they should rely on the hack to make their product better but if the hack happens besides the fact. How can that be a bad thing? Products that are open source or even semi-open source are capable of generating huge community bases of dedicated users. Whatever the case I'm sure they have their reasons...What do I know I'm just a "film maker".

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Plus not all guys at Lumix division are certain that hack prevention is good for them. They are still thinking about it

Here is to hoping that you convince them it is a bad idea. Maybe you could cut a deal with them. They give you a portion of their batteries sales and you eliminate the battery hack but they don't stop you from doing any of the other stuff. That way everybody is happy. I wouldn't mind paying the extra $60 for the spare battery if I knew it was going towards the hack effort anyway.

Do you know if the battery hack is a major concern for them or not? Is there any particular hack that they don't want to happen?

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Do you know if the battery hack is a major concern for them or not? Is there any particular hack that they don't want to happen?

Yes, it is major concern. This is extremely important to them.
Generally, I don't have problems to come to an agreement about this. They know it.