GH2 - Monitoring audio while recording

I am getting great sound going right into my GH2. All three videos on this page have been shot this way:

http://www.humans2humans.com

By the way, if anyone is interested in participating in my "humans2humans" video project, please let me know. I have just launched the website and I have my forst two sponsors. There will be some great gear for contributing filmmakers. I have yet to figure all the specifics yet, but take a look at the site and see if it fits your video interests.
 
Yes I just saw the K9TechBlog post. Very informative. He thinks the audio is fine and needs no firmware updates. My reply:

Respectfully, I think they absolutely do need to update the firmware with regards to audio. They need to give us the ability to turn off the AGC entirely if we choose. That's the least noisy way to record audio. Also there needs to be a smooth (not just 4 step) adjustment of the input gain. Sure keep the AGC and it's control as they are - which is the best I've seen, but please allow it to be disengaged all together too. Then you could accurately calibrate with the MixPre and a 25db pad. Then you would be the closest you can get on this camera to usable audio. Then if they would put a frickin' headphone jack on the thing we'd be in business!
 
Chadfish said:
Well usually that is something you switch between on video cameras. I thought there was manual control, but I saw this guy's video and he threw me off.

Click to expand...

I was going to do a review of the VMP on my GH2, but this fellow beat me too it. In general, I agree with his conclusions. Although I was surprised that the GH2's gain was still AGC.

I found that using 1 on the GH2 and 0 on the VMP gave good quality sound. With the +20DB setting, the signal is too hot. It would have been nicer to have a +10 DB setting - nice and hot, but not too hot. Oh, well. Something to reduce the gain by 10 DB maybe?

I still like the VMP. It's way better than other alternatives and still be small and light. (Except maybe for the other mic mentioned above.)

Regards,

Dan.
 
Chadfish said:
Yes I just saw the K9TechBlog post. Very informative. He thinks the audio is fine and needs no firmware updates. My reply:

Respectfully, I think they absolutely do need to update the firmware with regards to audio. They need to give us the ability to turn off the AGC entirely if we choose. That's the least noisy way to record audio. Also there needs to be a smooth (not just 4 step) adjustment of the input gain. Sure keep the AGC and it's control as they are - which is the best I've seen, but please allow it to be disengaged all together too. Then you could accurately calibrate with the MixPre and a 25db pad. Then you would be the closest you can get on this camera to usable audio. Then if they would put a frickin' headphone jack on the thing we'd be in business!
Click to expand...

Absolutely. No question this is the best alternative.
 
Ok though... It appears that the +20db mode is not useable. When that guy started talking my studio monitors started crackling. Not good.

So it brings back again the debate about whether the Hosa may be a better mic. Its got a better form factor, light small would perch awesome on a h1 for a light rig... Im actually leaning this way. Thoughts?

One other question. Can I use the pass my audio from my mic to my cam through the h1 AND record audio on the h1 at the same time for back up? I can't see a problem with doing this but if anyone knows that would be great. Also.. forgive my ignorance but wouldnt it then act as the pre-amp for the mic?
 
Hmmmm, regarding the "Evolution of a VDLSR" video, I know several rigs have their applications, but I'm really not fond of these complex lego-like rigs with stuff hanging all over the place.

When I had my old camera (FX7) I used to get good results by having a AT-897 microphone on a shockmount on top of the camera, connected to a Juiced Link CX-231 (to provide the great amp this mic needs) feeding the camera the final signal. Better than these flimsy sounding solutions. Even the AT-875 needs some bass on EQ to sound richer.

Since the DSLRs are actually a step back regarding integrated audio, I'd opt for a separated recorder (preferrably shoe mountable) and a full-fledge shotgun. Something just like DVXHerb's solution.

dustinash said:
http://vimeo.com/groups/297/videos/15378499

damn i love the size of that mic. im leaning towards the hosa
Click to expand...

It's like a miniature microphone! hahaha

Even the boom is tiny, ROFL.
 
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Chadfish said:
Yes I just saw the K9TechBlog post. Very informative. He thinks the audio is fine and needs no firmware updates. My reply:

Respectfully, I think they absolutely do need to update the firmware with regards to audio. They need to give us the ability to turn off the AGC entirely if we choose. That's the least noisy way to record audio. Also there needs to be a smooth (not just 4 step) adjustment of the input gain. Sure keep the AGC and it's control as they are - which is the best I've seen, but please allow it to be disengaged all together too. Then you could accurately calibrate with the MixPre and a 25db pad. Then you would be the closest you can get on this camera to usable audio. Then if they would put a frickin' headphone jack on the thing we'd be in business!
Click to expand...
+1. If AGC can be disabled, I don't see the need of portable recorders like H4n and DR100 as they have weak preamp. Portable preamp device like JuicedLink or Sound Devices would make more sense.
 
dustinash said:
Ok though... It appears that the +20db mode is not useable. When that guy started talking my studio monitors started crackling. Not good.

So it brings back again the debate about whether the Hosa may be a better mic. Its got a better form factor, light small would perch awesome on a h1 for a light rig... Im actually leaning this way. Thoughts?

One other question. Can I use the pass my audio from my mic to my cam through the h1 AND record audio on the h1 at the same time for back up? I can't see a problem with doing this but if anyone knows that would be great. Also.. forgive my ignorance but wouldnt it then act as the pre-amp for the mic?
Click to expand...

I woudn't conclude that the mic is not usable. He was standing in the wind without a fuzzy. But also the mic was totally usable at 0db setting with the GH2 audio set to level 1.

And as for the Que Audio mic, I have heard reports that it is not very sensitive, so you will need a preamp that adds gain for that mic. And you're not even considering the audio quality of the Rode mic. Its not just about how small or how sensitive a mic is, you need to listen to the frequency response of the Rode, and that's also (on top of having the gain boost) where the VMP excelles. It just plain sounds better.
 
Here is a test. My way of giving back to the users on this forum that have helped me alot.

Here is a test. Panasonic GH2 Audio Level 1. Olympus LS-10 Audio Recorder 24 bit, 48 hz. Azden Cam-3 mixer, Rode VideoMic Pro, Sony UWP-V1 wireless lav.

First half of test is recorded in camera. Second half at around 3:30 is recorded with the LS-10.

I never used this Azden much before (pictures on the vimeo page) as it always brought volume down too much for practical use, not having a built in pre amp. But when testing the Rode VideoMic Pro at +20db I was surprised how bad the sound was into the GH2, its just too much boost. So I am pleasantly surprised that I can now get a lot more control with the Rode if going into the GH2 using the mixer. This little mixer can easily strap onto your camera. I have a small piece of velcro on the back of it and will velcro it onto my mini Sima LED light that sits on the hotshoe. That Sima light has a second hot-shoe that I can mount the Rode to. All three items are so light it's still a very light shooting tool. I have not really tested it out run and gun style but it feels plenty stable as long as you don't go crazy with it.

For some reason, going into the LS-10 is different. The recording levels are very low using the Sony (fine on the Rode +20) after passing through the mixer as you can hear (unless I turn the mic sensitivity to high). If I go direct into the LS-10 (without the mixer) with either mic, the levels are very strong and I have a lot more wiggle room. Thus the mixer is not that great going into the LS-10 with the Sony but is fine with the Rode.

Conclusions: the 24 bit audio is cleaner without as much hiss and I have full control of it. However, as a easy way to good very good audio with full control (other than monitoring) is to use the Rode at +20 into the mixer and that plugged directly into the cam via a 3.5 to 2.5 dual male cord. Like this infinitecables.com/​pop/​av_25m-35m.htm
Then watch peaks on camera and use slider to adjust.

I will continue to use the LS-10 especially for the wireless lav system. I can monitor there for problems in frequency and have more boost then with using the mixer. But it is still a very good option to use the wireless system without the mixer, going directly into the GH2 with a 3.5 to 2.5 male to male cord. I can actually monitor the audio from the Tuner and have some control of the attenuation on the fly. Directly in cam it does not take the volume down like this test showed using the mixer (sorry did not show you this). In fact it's very high and you have to dial back to about -9 using direct in camera.

In both cases, I can avoid using the 3.5 to 2.5 adapter in the GH2 which can fail in connection.

My guess is that the GH2 is just a very hot pic up and benefits from the mixer which brings the heat down a bit.
Pictures: 1, 2, 3
 
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Hey Banndito! That a really great video and very helpful. I'll have to watch again to get all the specifics. That GH2 is so loud because AGC is always on - and I want that changed ASAP in firmware. But your workaround looks promising. I am concerned that the Azden mixer may add noise but I heard none in the first viewing. The control is cool, but isn't the VMP working fine with no mixer and just set to 0db?

I've heard of the DS214 preamp from JuicedLink, that may be a bit more pro solution, but the AZden could be a nice alternative as long as it doesn't molest the audio quality more than the camera already does. Here are some of Robert's videos using his preamp: http://www.juicedlink.com/blog/

I haven't looked into that yet either. I don't even have a GH2 yet! I plan on getting one, but I only just found out its AGC all the time. So unfortunate.

EDIT: Here's that Azden mixer - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3631-REG/Azden_CAM_3_CAM_3_3_Channel_Mic_Mixer.html
 
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Thanks. Yes, the Rode works fine at 0 into the cam at level 1 on GH2. But I have been testing and sure enough when you use the Hosa 3.5 female to 2.5 male the connection sometimes comes undone and then you have no audio. The benefit here is 1) to use a 2.5 directly into the camera and 2) being able to go higher or lower with the slider on the fly and 3) being able to run up to three separate mics into the GH2. And of course, you get more wiggle room being able to use the+20 and dial down the other stuff if you want.

Not saying I am for sure going to use this system but it seems to work good so far. And I like that it gives me a little more flexibility. I was also hoping someone on this forum can figure out a way to be able to use a splitter cable to plug into the 3.5 out on the Azden to split it and monitor the sound going into the camera.

The Azden is like $45!

I think the GH2 is simply using a limiter. Its not a gain control, its more like a clipper. When it peaks it just clips back the peak. My LS 10 does this also but with the LS 10 I can turn that off.

Edit: Thanks for the JuicedLink tip. I watched the vids and it looks very promising.
 
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VMP seems pretty good. Relatively small and good performance.

Nah. Forget about the splitting cable.

JL-CX211 or JL-DT454 would look like a tank next to GH2. JL-DS214 looks smaller. 3.5mm input (no XLR adapter required), preamp, agc-disabler, level meters, headphone out. Hopefully JL doesn't degrade quality of the preamp.

I'm upgrading from built-in speaker audio to the VMP/DS214/Headphone. Huge upgrade at relatively low cost. No dual recording.
 
nice test. thanks.
maybe you could make an audio file with these tests but also with equaling the output levels between the GH2 and the LS-10,
cause the GH2 sound way higher than the recorder.. hard to examine the test..
the AGC does seem to compress the sound so it's kind of unusable at the moment, if you consider narrative work. i don't think it's just a limiter.
 
roei z said:
nice test. thanks.
maybe you could make an audio file with these tests but also with equaling the output levels between the GH2 and the LS-10,
cause the GH2 sound way higher than the recorder.. hard to examine the test..
the AGC does seem to compress the sound so it's kind of unusable at the moment, if you consider narrative work. i don't think it's just a limiter.
Click to expand...

If I equaled the two you would not even hear the LS 10. The Azden takes the sound way down to the point of it hardly being usable in a normal no gain audio set up. Used Level 1 on camera and Level 9 on LS10! The only thing I was trying to show is that the R VMP can be used direct into the GH2 even while using the +20 setting and giving you control with slider.

But honestly, even though you have slider control you don't have monitoring so may be pointless. So the Juiced Link solution looks to be the best (just looked at his blog) for getting clean in camera audio and having monitoring (but its designed for the Canons, so we will have to wait and see if it works with the GH2). The way the JL works is that is beefs up right channel in camera and gives you clean left channel (according to one of his videos). But does this mean you get mono?

I can tell you I hate syncing audio. I have 60 plus hours of footage I am working on on a documentary and 1/3 of the time it does not sync. So I have to spend tons of time syncing. It sucks for documentary. I think the tiny bit of hiss from the 16 bit vs the 24 bit is a trade off that I will take next time shooting. I really want to drop the dual system. But on the GH1 it just was not possible.
 
Beautiful audio Larry. please explain your setup. Thanks.

larrys said:
I am getting great sound going right into my GH2. All three videos on this page have been shot this way:

http://www.humans2humans.com

By the way, if anyone is interested in participating in my "humans2humans" video project, please let me know. I have just launched the website and I have my forst two sponsors. There will be some great gear for contributing filmmakers. I have yet to figure all the specifics yet, but take a look at the site and see if it fits your video interests.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks boo,

I use a sennheiser ME66 plugged into one channel of an xlr adapter. This one:

http://www.studio1productions.com/xlr-bp.htm

The adapter is set to mono which then lays the sound down onto both audio tracks in the camera. The xlr adapter is going into the camera via a 2.5mm adapter. As I said, not a single glitch yet! I just posted a new video from yesterday which was VERY WINDY! The windscreen I bought from B&H is excellent as you can hear in the video. It is the first video at the top of the page:

http://www.humans2humans.com/

The only mistake was that, I did not have the mic quite far enough to the left and with the 20mm pancake lens, you can just see the windscreen in the top, left corner of the frame. Good lesson! Here's the windscreen:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656636-REG/Pearstone_9101890_Fuzzy_Windjammer.html
 
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