GH2 - Monitoring audio while recording

[KarlSutton]

No, it's not, for the reason I stated in my post.

The cable, plugs & adapters connecting the sound source to the camera are notoriously unreliable. They often produce crackles & noise when they move/rotate, are easily pulled loose or pulled out of the mic input socket -- including when they're only slightly disconnected -- causing the sound to cut in & out, hum, buzz, etc.

Level meters on the camera only give you one of many, many pieces of info you need to know when monitoring audio. It's far more important to listen to the sound than look at meters, indicators, etc.

It's OK to record audio in-camera if the camera's automatic level control (or auto limiting or whatever it's doing) is acceptable, or if it's relatively low-quality pre-amps are acceptable, or if the camera's relatively low-fi sound recording format is acceptable, and it's even acceptable if the mic cable falls out, buzzes, crackles, etc. ----- if ----- the recording isn't important, or if it's OK to go again and shoot another take when something inevitably goes wrong. It's all good if this is OK.

But otherwise, use an external sound recorder, too, and _listen_ to the live audio on good headphones while it's being recorded.

Aside to Sam: Hey, a shout-out to Hoboken! I'm originally from Ho-Ho-Kus!

I'm thinking this is a good idea - as much of a PITA as it is.

 

[Sam Mallery]

I coming to grips with the fact that recording double system sound is a necessity at all times. I've just got to think of it as just another part of the process. Kind of like logging footage using minDV tapes. It was a pain, but it just became part of the process, and it actually gave me time to think about the edit before I started. The added burden will help make it a better production, sound-wise and otherwise.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

It's not as doom and gloom as you might think ...

Thanks for your detailed post. Much appreciated.

I'll use my GH2 with my MixPre, too, when appropriate. I also have some adjustable in-line XLR attenuators. I'm looking forward to testing this combination over the next few days.

Likewise, I hope to do some tests with my wireless mics directly connected to my new GH2.

And you're correct: The GH2's on-screen level meters at least allow us to confirm that audio is getting through to the camera. Of course, we don't know if the cable connection is working completely correctly (e.g.: crackles, buzzes & hum) until playback. But on some shoots, verification-on-playback is perfectly acceptable.

Thanks again.

 

[timbook2]

I tried my wireless Sennheiser on the GH1 and it was no good.....the heavy compression was still there. I doubt GH2 will be any different. I am sorry to hear the reduced HDMI output features too but am not surprised: why should they make an AF100 if all your requests were fulfilled on the GH2 ?

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

I tried my wireless Sennheiser on the GH1 and it was no good.....the heavy compression was still there. I doubt GH2 will be any different. ...

I've used my wireless Sennheiser mics with my GH1 with some success. It's not ideal, but in a pinch it's usable for program audio. This video is from several months ago (details on the Vimeo page):
http://vimeo.com/12000889

I expect my GH2 to sound similar, but possibly somewhat different because the GH2 allows a bit of control over setting audio recording levels. But in general I suspect the GH2 will sound pretty similar to the GH1, subject to further testing. Cheers.

 

[lluis]

Sounds good!!

 

[DvxHerb]

This is going to be long winded, but maybe the pictures can help illustrate my questions / scenarios.

My audio equipment consists of:
Zoom H1
Tascam DR100
AT875 mic

Here is my current GH2 Run & Gun setup:



In the picture, the mic is going directly into the camera (bypassing the H1) via an XLR to 3.5mm cable with a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter. Sounds pretty good, but its risky. A slight improvement would be to get this adapter:


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/488047-REG/Hosa_Technology_GMP_467_GMP_467_Right_Angle.html

Still not ideal by far. The next option allowing me to bypass an adapter would be to get this 6" XLR to 2.5mm from kvconnection:

http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/k-25mx3f-6i.htm

The next, more prudent solution, would be to get the Senscom H4 / H1 attenuator with headphone monitoring. It would still need that Hosa 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter:


http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON

Coming out of the H1 I'd have headphone monitoring and the option of going dual system if I were inclined.


Sescom does make a Zoom to GH1 attenuator:



But it has no headphone monitoring.

And according to John at Sescom, none is forthcoming. He said it just was not possible because of the size of the 2.5mm jack and the fact that the one they use is metal. What? You'd think if there was enough demand they could get a larger housing in plastic that was a right angle too!

I mentioned that I guess I could just use that Hos 3.5 to 2.5 adapter and John said: "You really wouldn't want to do that" To which I replied: "No, I wouldn't, but what else can I do?" He had no solution.

Now, adding more weight and bulk, I could use the DR100 with it's separate headphone and output, but Sescom is not currently offering a Tascam to GH2 attenuator cable...

I guess an option would be to get a 3.5mm Y spiltter, one side going to headphones, the other feeding the the Secom 3.5 to 2.5 Zoom to GH2 attenuator.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas?

 

[timbook2]

I've used my wireless Sennheiser mics with my GH1 with some success. It's not ideal, but in a pinch it's usable. This video is from several months ago:
I expect my GH2 to sound similar, but possibly somewhat different because the GH2 allows some control over setting audio recording levels. But in general I suspect it'll sound similar, subject to further testing. Cheers.

Yes sounds very good! I guess the settings on the Sennheiser are crucial. What really hit me in your piece were those teenagers who use the word "like" in like every third like word like you know?

 

[Dan Clark]

DVXHerb,

First, thanks for the great info! While I've been eagerly awaiting my GH2, I've been researching audio equipment and connectors for the GH2. It's been a VERY frustrating experience. As everyone knows the two biggest audio limitations for the GH2 are the 2.5mm connector and the lack of a headphone monitoring jack.

/Rant = ON
What's extremely frustrating is that virtually all of the audio equipment comes with 3.5mm or XLR plugs. And almost all of the 2.5mm adapters are straight. So you have this fragile adapter structure sticking straight out of the camera. You're probably controlled enough to deal with it. I, on the other hand, am a klutz. I'd snap that baby off within the first two days.
/Rant = OFF

I've ordered three separate right angle connectors to try when my GH2 when it comes. I hope it works out.

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

... What really hit me in your piece were those teenagers who use the word "like" in like every third like word like you know?

Like, that's like my favorite part of the video, like, you know?

 

[Dan Clark]

...
My audio equipment consists of:
Zoom H1
Tascam DR100
AT875 mic

Here is my current GH2 Run & Gun setup:



...

DVXHerb,

As I briefly mentioned my post/rant, I'm wrestling with how to set up my GH2. There are two things the confuse me about your setup:

• Doesn't the AT875 mic require 48v phantom power. Where is it getting power?

• I believe the AT875 is mono. Does the cable or adapter provide signals to both of GH1's stereo channels?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[DvxHerb]

Dan,

The mic takes a battery (AA I think).

You're right, the mic is mono. Playing back the video I am getting audio from both channels, so the GH2 is recording to mono both.

Herb

 

[Sam Mallery]

My even more long winded reply...

The next, more prudent solution, would be to get the Senscom H4 / H1 attenuator with headphone monitoring. It would still need that Hosa 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter:


http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMH4-MON

Coming out of the H1 I'd have headphone monitoring and the option of going dual system if I were inclined.

As far as I'm concerned, I think it's best to avoid those cheap 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapters altogether. The goal is to get as durable & reliable system as possible. Any solution that includes a small adapter like this falls short of the goal.

Sescom does make a Zoom to GH1 attenuator:

The link was missing. It's an important one, so here it is:
http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=LN2MIC-ZMH4-GH1

But it has no headphone monitoring.

Not the end of the world. I haven't tried it myself, but other people have posted on dvxuser that they have used the Sescom cables with headphone Y-cables (coming out of the headphone output on the recorder) and it worked just fine. If you try this, just don't use a cheap and crappy Y-cable. As much as I don't like Monster cable, I have this splitter and it's built like a brick S*@t house:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/325066-REG/Monster_Cable_126135_Mini_Stereo_1_8_Y.html

It was discontinued and replaced with a crappier one with volume controls, which is a drag, but these old ones should be floating around on eBay.

Now, adding more weight and bulk, I could use the DR100 with it's separate headphone and output

Adding more weight and bulk may well go hand in hand with any really solid solution here.

The DR100 may be your best bet. You can mount it to the shoe of the camera with a 1/4 20 shoe adapter, and use the GH1/GH2 Sescom cable. You can try it with the Line output on the DR100 (which will likely require dropping the input level on the GH2 to its lowest setting). If that signal is still too hot, you can try the Sescom cable on the DR100's headphone output with a good headphone splitter (like that old Monster one I linked).

Sescom is not currently offering a Tascam to GH2 attenuator cable...

As far as I can tell, the only thing that makes these Sescom cables different from one another (besides the 2.5mm plug on the GH1/GH2 model) is the amount of signal they attenuate. Some drop it down -25dB, others drop it down -35dB. Both of those should be fine. You can adjust the input level on the GH2, and the headphone output level on your portable digital recorder and find the sweet spot. A little testing and whammo. It doesn't matter what model number is associated with the cable. Getting good audio is all that matters.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas?

I'm still sussing out the ideal approach for myself. As an audio guy, I'm finding it really beneficial to use my audio bag and harness when solo shooting run and gun with a DSLR. Added weight and bulk go hand in hand when you really take on improving your audio (outside of just popping a mini shotgun on the shoe and being done with it). So you may want to look into Petrol bags and harnesses to hold the DR100 and any other gear (wireless receivers, batteries, etc.).

One thing to consider is using a juicedLink CX series XLR adapter box. They have a 3.5mm output, as opposed to a built in cable. Robert (the guy that runs juicedLink) has 2.5mm to 3.5mm cables that he will sell you (they're not listed on his site yet). Contact him and he'll sell you one. You could get a juicedLink DT454 and Robert's 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable, plug it into the GH2 to record sound, and monitor on the headphone output of the DT454. But the problem there is that you're only recording audio on the GH2 (and not making a second copy of the sound on a portable digital recorder), and you can't hear what's actually being recorded. But you could use your AT875 with it and see the meters on the screen of the GH2.

Basically, I haven't come up with an ultra-lightweight solution for recording double system with excellent quality sound on a solo DSLR shoot. I own a Sound Devices 302, a bag and a harness. So when I do a shoot and "do it right," it requires that I shoot double system, and it requires that I have a bulky bag strapped to my chest with lots of gear inside of it for sound. It works, and it's safely redundant in case one of the sound recording systems has an error. But it's not lightweight, non-bulky, or inexpensive.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

The mic takes a battery (AA I think).

You're right, the mic is mono. Playing back the video I am getting audio from both channels, so the GH2 is recording to mono both.

Herb

Herb,

Thanks for the info. The AT website wasn't clear on whether it would take a battery or not. Regarding the audio recording to both channels, that's fine with me. I was worried that it was only recording to one channel.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[DvxHerb]

Sam,

Wow. Thanks for the thorough assessment of the situation. I just scored that Monster Cable splitter for under $4.00! I'll order the Sescom GH1 cable and let you know what I find out.

Herb

 

[Ben_B]

DVXHerb,

First, thanks for the great info! While I've been eagerly awaiting my GH2, I've been researching audio equipment and connectors for the GH2. It's been a VERY frustrating experience. As everyone knows the two biggest audio limitations for the GH2 are the 2.5mm connector and the lack of a headphone monitoring jack.

/Rant = ON
What's extremely frustrating is that virtually all of the audio equipment comes with 3.5mm or XLR plugs. And almost all of the 2.5mm adapters are straight. So you have this fragile adapter structure sticking straight out of the camera. You're probably controlled enough to deal with it. I, on the other hand, am a klutz. I'd snap that baby off within the first two days.
/Rant = OFF

I've ordered three separate right angle connectors to try when my GH2 when it comes. I hope it works out.

Thanks,

Dan.

I've had one snapped off before, but it was by someone else on set. Looks like that right angle adaptor might not fit though because the jack is slightly sunken.

 

[irguy]

...there is NO audio output to the monitor in live or record mode. It is there only in playback.

If audio was output while monitoring/recording there would be feedback (unless monitored via sealed over-the-ear headphones). The company I work for makes recorders for industrial applications and audio output is always disabled except during playback for this reason.

Guy

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

If audio was output while monitoring/recording there would be feedback (unless monitored via sealed over-the-ear headphones). The company I work for makes recorders for industrial applications and audio output is always disabled except during playback for this reason.

But the GH2 and other video-capable DSLRs are not "recorders for industrial applications". Instead, these cams are general-purpose digital still and video consumer products. And, especially in the case of the more expensive DSLR models, they are often used for prosumer & pro video production applications.

If the GH2 were to feature live audio monitoring (which it unfortunately does not), most ordinary consumers would rarely get themselves into a situation resulting in audio feedback. And in the few cases when feedback did occur, most would know to turn the volume down on their HDTV to stop the feedback. "Non-problem" solved.

That leaves an extremely small number of naive users who might be utterly incapable of resolving this rare "issue". It's hard to imagine that being adequate justification for Panasonic to design the GH2 to not support live audio monitoring.

Especially since for decades prosumer & pro video production users have come to expect this capability in every camera designed to record video. And especially since "everyone" knows designing this capability into a video camera/DSLR is essentially as close to free/no-cost as modern consumer electronics gets.

Panasonic & the other DSLR manufacturers kinda, sorta, maybe had an excuse to not include live audio monitoring in their 1st generation video-capable DSLR cams, because they were "new", but that horse left the barn a long time ago.

I love my GH2 (I'm caressing it this very moment!), but IMHO Panasonic et al have no excuse for omitting this no-brainer feature. Cheers.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

At least audio via HDMI is clearly firmware only thing.
They really need to fix HDMI to be exact copy of RAW data.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

At least audio via HDMI is clearly firmware only thing.
They really need to fix HDMI to be exact copy of RAW data.

Amen!