GH2 GH2 First day Impressions ? Data rates > 17Mbs and ex teli mode

J

jfro

Member
Do I have this right.

24Mb/s is only avail in 24P mode on high setting? All other modes are capped at 17Mbs?

When shooting manual mode video in either 24p or 30i, AND using the ex-teli mode, you cannot have an external hdmi monitor hooked up. When I'm in ex-Teli mode, it works fine when viewing on Gh2 lcd, BUT when I plug in HDMI monitor, the ex-Teli mode shuts off. Going to be a tough to work with that when using an external monitor and you want to switch back and forth. Turning the monitor off doesn't work to keep the ex-teli. You have to unplug the hdmi cable as near as I can tell.

Going to keep my Hacked GH13.

My first impression is love/hate, but it's early. Low light test's on first night did not impress me, although it is better. Would like to hear some others experience with different noise reduction settings.

Next up, hooking into the HDMI on my black magic card and see what if it will work.
 
Yes, 24Mb/s is only in 24 "H" mode under cinema 24 and only when your dial is on movie mode. If you use the 80% slow motion then you'll get 24Mb/s 30p too but without audio. Yes the ex tele mode does not work with HDMI monitor from what I've heard from numerous people but haven't tested. The GH2 can be a very powerful so don't dismiss it just yet:) you have to find its sweetspots. For low light, try using isos like 200/400/800/1600 instead of in betweens, also there's a fun "fact" that if you step down from 400 to 320 vs stepping up from 200, there's much less noise i.e not amplified. Also , as I'm sure you're aware, ex tele mode and high iso don't play well, so maybe that's one of the reasons why you were disappointed with low light performance. Iso 3200 can be good but when you have lots of underexposed areas, lots of shadows and blacks, it's ugly because it introduces visible chroma noise which is ugly. But iso 1600 is very good, coupled with a 1.4 lens and you've got a very good performer. A note on profiles and settings. I've found Cinema mode is the cleanest of all and it seems to me to be the native look whereas nostalgic and smooth seem amplified in brightness and have definitely more noise. You DON'T want in camera noise reduction. I've tested this myself and what everyone says is true. cinema mode at -2 NR is very clean and in fact was not that different from +2, just that +2 makes image softer. noise reduction will make gradients transition less smoothly .Ofcourse if you're going to be publishing web content on youtube or something in 720p, go ahead and use everything at +2, it won't make a difference . Also, I have heard and seen that Neatvideo can do miracles in removing noise and artifacts losing the least amount of detail. The way I use my camera in lowlight is with either my 20mm 1.7 or my nikkor 50mm 1.2, is aperture wide open on the pancake and 1.4 on the nikon, iso 800/1600, cinema mode -2 NR, -2 SH. -2 CON, 0 SAT and I can get very good results. and if you play with clever plugins like neatvideo and adjust slightly curves and stuff in color correction you can get awesome results, with neatvideo, i bet you could get good results from iso 3200 too. The HDMI recording won't work like you'd expect it. there's a huge thread that talks and kind of solves the issue but it involves a lot of scripts in Avisynth so it gets a bit ugly if you're not a software geek. And you're still left with no audio and 4:2:0, but there are some differences and depending on the user's needs they might be worth it.
hope this helps

Stefanos
 
Stefanos:. Agree with pretty much everything you say. I've tried Neat plug-in but didn't purchase it.
My testing last night was at f/1.4 and settings were -1 brtness, -2 sat, -1 on noise reduction. Didn't go past asa 160. Just got camera late yesterday, so didn't try any other settings. I am still worried a little about the shadows. Saw a music video with the AF100, and the blacks were flat out crushed on Vimeo.

I won't give up on it, but just disappointed that 24p is only place to get 24Mbs. I was recently in Kauai with the Hacked Gh13, 5Dmkii, and 7d and I used the GH13 for 90% of my walk around personal filming I did. I ran that at the safe 33Mbs mode or so.

I have shoot a lot of 720p 60fps when there is movement because everything else seems to suck. Would like a Red Epic, but doubt if that's going to happen.

I haven't captured anything HDMI yet, but can only get preview up on 1080i 60. Doesn't matter what camera is set at, 1080i 60 setting is only one that previews so far. Going to have to change machines to test capture, as I took array off my workstation and can't sustain data throughput. Will probably play with camera some more and test hdmi capture later. Don't feel like messing with computers right now.

Anybody know if 1080 60 is the only GH2 output mode from hdmi?
 
as far as hdmi is concerned : http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?237584-HDMI-Capture-Problem-SOLVED-AviSynth-RULES! good luck with the reading...:) About 720p I will refrain from making comments since I haven't really used on the GH2 and I never used a GH13. You didn't go past 160 ISO during the night? That's weird unless you were pointing at a lamp or sth or if you had crazy low shutter speed. did you mean iso 1600?. It is stupid of panasonic to have 24Mbs in 24 p I agree. your GH13 is probably better in 720p than the GH2, that's what many users have reported. Generally I agree that shadows and underexposed areas on the GH2 can behave quite weirdly. sometimes, even on low isos if you have like a black wall or sth, it can be quite noisy, but it's not something quantifiable or that I can really explain. And also, with the GH2 it's very important to nail the exposure. if you underexpose even a bit in night scenes, the blacks can be weird and have banding etc. it's probably better to overexpose and then bring the curves down in post. About crushed blacks which I'm allergic to, the video you're talking about , I bet it's either awful color "correction" that we have been so accustomed to witnessing or if there was no CC, maybe the user of the AF100 used a panasonic lens and didn't dial down the contrast or used a standard profile. Being an owner of the 20mm and nikkor and pentax old manual lens, the only thing that saves the 20mm is dialing contrast to -2, it's VERY contrasty compared to other lenses and the same goes for most panasonic lenses. If one leaves contrast to 0 on the 20mm and you use like a standard or vivid profile... oh god.. Anyway try shooting in night using the settings I mentioned and report back with your thoughts, cinema at -2 NR, -2 SHARP, -2 CON, 0 SAT, at iso 800/1600 with a f/1.4 shutter 1/50, 24H.
 
Yeah I find the Ex Tele mode to be sort of a hail mary pass. Nothing beats real glass over digital zoom- even if it's a higher quality than usual one. You can't really write off the camera because it can't show HDMI out and a hopped up digital zoom simultaneously. That's a very special case. If you find yourself using Ex Tele more than once a day it's a sure sign you need more telephoto lenses in your arsenal, not that the camera has a shortcoming.

Noah
 
If you won't be color grading your footage (and there isn't white blow out on anything important in the shot), I strongly recommend cinema, -2. If you will be, I strongly recommend smooth, -2.
Cinema achieves a film log curve by applying a downward curve to the luma, tossing out the bottom of the noisy DR. This is why it will be so clean, it forces you to expose for the clean part of the DR at every iso.
W/ cinema, there will be a highlight shift to yellow, and the shadows will be lost in a low bitrate storm, thanks to the encoder. The upside is, more of the bitrate & bit depth is dedicated to the most important visible part of the image, and you don't have to color grade. (the get-it-in-cam approach)

With isos, try to stick to 160, 400 and 800. When moving to 320 from 400, 320 improves; and the same applies to 640 from 800. But 400 and 800 are always clean, normal isos (its their signal-noise pathway that gets applied to 320/640 in the trick). Using F2 or lower lenses should be enough at iso 800 in almost any light. (1600 as final resort)
When shooting smooth, to attain the same clean dr as cinema - expose on a stop brighter iso. For example, with cinema, choose the exposure that looks the way you want the final result to look. When you switch to smooth, it will be brighter - record that, and you will have the same noise amount (you just have to apply the downward curve in post yourself). Cinema does it for you, but when a colorist does a lift on the shadows, it won't be pretty (and they will have to massage the yellow blow outs).
 
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NoahK said:
Yeah I find the Ex Tele mode to be sort of a hail mary pass. Nothing beats real glass over digital zoom- even if it's a higher quality than usual one. You can't really write off the camera because it can't show HDMI out and a hopped up digital zoom simultaneously. That's a very special case. If you find yourself using Ex Tele more than once a day it's a sure sign you need more telephoto lenses in your arsenal, not that the camera has a shortcoming.

Noah
Click to expand...


The trouble is a 200mm lens with 720P with E-T-C is like over 2000mm /35mm equivalent if there are lenses like that they cost a bomb.
 
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Sage. Thanks for the in-depth suggestions.
When you suggest Cinema Mode -2, are you speaking of -2 on noise reduction?

I played this weekend with some of the different modes and am feeling better about low light shooting. I need some more tests, but am getting there. I did find the yellow highlights in cinema mode you talked about which was a bear to get out.

I usually always just shoot in 160, 320, 640 1250 etc on ISO's, or at least when ever possible.

I was hoping against hope, it might be up to the task of being as good in low light as the 5D MK II.

Ran into another burp today. When using the composite out, it only works on playback. I was going to try it on a steadicam pilot today and wasn't able to get a signal in recording mode to the monitor. Monitor states only on play back. For now, will just use lcd.

Thanks all for comments.
 
Sorry to say that is seems the GH13 might be your best option. The GH2 likely won't be hacked before the GH3 comes out, and Vitalij has already said that many of your desired features won't be available even in a hacked GH2.
 
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