GH2 GH2: Color banding

Elmer_Lang

Elmer_Lang

Well-known member
Am close to pulling trigger on the GH2, have handled it a bit at B&H, but googling around finding out more about it, it seems to have a color banding issue, particularly but not exclusively in the sky. And I guess its competition has similar if not exact issues. Any opinions, including fixes (none that I've found)?
And would this be found in cams like the XA10 or even g10?
 
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The first day I got the camera, I tested it outdoors and noticed some sky banding. Its never come up on an actual shoot (thank goodness), but it is possible.

A user here recommended keeping the ISO higher than 320 to avoid that, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but some claim it helps. Also, many of the hacks claim to also diminish the effects of it as well.
 
M. Gilden said:
A user here recommended keeping the ISO higher than 320 to avoid that, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but some claim it helps. Also, many of the hacks claim to also diminish the effects of it as well.
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I think the theory is that the added grain helps the camera handle or display the smooth gradation of colour better. (or at least that is what I was led to believe). I haven't tested anything so I am just recycling here.
 
The camera is basically not for anyone who just wants to point and shoot.

ISO Bug issues, banding, odd hdmi outputs, crunchy footage at first sight and too many patches/hacks (but advancements are pretty noticeable up to a certain point)... those looking for ease of use should check elsewhere. Even I get fed up with the ISO bugs, so on and so forth.

As for banding, it's most painful indoors with solid surfaces or any very quick changes from light to dark, and sometimes even a higher ISO doesn't help it. Price you pay for not paying a lot, I guess.
 
If the banding still continues to be a problem, may I recommend to look into this work flow which has several different potential solutions that can be tested and used either on their own or combined: http://www.fourseasonshd.com/cgi-bin/csvsearch.pl?db=db1&tp=tp19&search=bluelight7

It has eliminated majority of banding from GH1 material, so it is safe to assume similar results could be had with GH2.

If somebody has a banded GH2 source video file in MTS format that I could download, I will be happy to put it through Silkypix and see if it could be unbanded.
 
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elmer - this is the best answer on "banding" that I have seen (from Ben Giles in the UK via dvinfo): http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panason...olour-banding-especially-sky.html#post1732497

My two cents:
- 8 bit cameras (to include 8 bit camcorders) have challenges with color gradation

- this can be addressed, to some extent, by 'replacing the sky' in post (as Ben did), with polarizing filters and/or with turning the contrast on the camera down to -2

To put this in perspective - the other large sensor interchangeable lens cameras at this price point all have problems with moire - which cannot be fixed in post.

As for the ISO bug - I have never seen it in over a year of shooting. Of course I only shoot at 160, 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 - close to the film ASAs I grew up with. Who ever heard of ASA 320 or 640 anyway? ;-)

Cheers,

Bill
 
brunerww said:
My two cents:
- 8 bit cameras (to include 8 bit camcorders) have challenges with color gradation
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A good software should be able to deal with it. My suggestion is, the next time the banded sky appears, have a screen grab of it and change the EXIF info using Exifer program so that the image loads into Silkypix. Make some changes in the curves etc. in Silkypix and develop the image into a TIFF file.

If the banding is gone from the developed image, then it's safe to say that it's not just the cameras but also the commonly used software that are not handling the material properly. It's a rather simple test and I could do it aswell, if a banded source image from GH2 could be had.

I can see that the problem exists, because most of the GH2 videos seem to be banded and posterized to varying degree.
 
I use Sony Vegas Pro 11 and the only time I see banding is if I do not disable forced sampling in the properties window for that clip. Once forced sampling is disabled the clip looks great. I think the GH2 is a great camera. I’ve had know other problems with it and the video that comes out of this camera is beautiful.
 
Thanks to all for your replies!
I haven't purchased yet so have no video to illustrate but appreciate the offer. Coming from a long-ago purchased Canon HV20 I had hoped to take a nice step up in quality but without real photography chops it's a bit daunting putting down money on something with so many issues. I guess the XA10 or HF-G10 might give me somewhat of a step up with fewer issues tho I was hoping for a bit more. I'll have to ponder this a bit.
Thanks again!!
 
MBPRODUCTS said:
I use Sony Vegas Pro 11 and the only time I see banding is if I do not disable forced sampling in the properties window for that clip. Once forced sampling is disabled the clip looks great. I think the GH2 is a great camera. I’ve had know other problems with it and the video that comes out of this camera is beautiful.
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Ah, very interesting. I have FCP on a mac. I wonder if there is a similar solution there?
 
Dudes...these issues are small and old.
Seriously.
The "ISO bug" is beaten in one second flat - it has long been known that the bug shows up only when you click "UP" to 320 or 640. Yup, it's THAT simple, you just click ABOVE 320 or ABOVE 640 and than back down to 320 or 640 and you don't get the bug.

As for banding - it is an 8-bit hazard on all cameras. It does get worse with the lowest ISO's but that can be worked around and it doesn't always occur anyway.
Also hacks like Driftwood's have been shown to reduce banding significantly. Even lower bit-rate hacks improve it.

That's about it for these two topics.
Really not a problem at all.

As for FCP on Mac - using a very very inexpensive program called 5DtoRGB will transcode your files as well as anything out there anywhere AND it gives you a final file format that will be interpreted the same way in other software on different computers.

I think the HV20-30-40 were GREAT cameras, but the GH2 FAR surpasses them now. The world of lenses is a beautiful thing.

Enjoy the GH2!
 
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DPStewart said:
Dudes...these issues are small and old.
Seriously.
The "ISO bug" is beaten in one second flat - it has long been known that the bug shows up only when you click "UP" to 320 or 640. Yup, it's THAT simple, you just click ABOVE 320 or ABOVE 640 and than back down to 320 or 640 and you don't get the bug.
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Depends on how you like to work. Having to do it every time you turn on the camera (yes, you do) is annoying. Small things add up to frustration when you're trying to use something for more than cat videos.

As for banding - it is an 8-bit hazard on all cameras. It does get worse with the lowest ISO's but that can be worked around and it doesn't always occur anyway.
Also hacks like Driftwood's have been shown to reduce banding significantly. Even lower bit-rate hacks improve it.
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The trade-off is noise. Which is fine, but that's what's going on. You will still get it when you don't want it to show up.
That's about it for these two topics.
Really not a problem at all.
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Perhaps for one person, for another it might be the small annoyance that puts them off.

Knowing about it and understanding it helps people make an informed decision. I personally would not recommend the GH2 to anyone that wanted to just point and shoot.
 
On the flip side, it's pretty silly to complain about hoops you have to jump through to get there (guilty as charged) if you're using one. I'd probably just look at myself and wonder why I don't just use a REAL camera. haha.

If one's willing to put up with the gotchas, then the image quality can't be beat by anything (to me) under C300 and Scarlet. That's just me, though.
 
Kholi said:
If one's willing to put up with the gotchas, then the image quality can't be beat by anything (to me) under C300 and Scarlet. That's just me, though.
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Given the price differences between the GH2 and the pro cams I am willing to put up with Gotchas. It seems each camera under 10k has its tradeoffs so its all how you want to spend the budget and how much you have.
 
RatLabProductions said:
Given the price differences between the GH2 and the pro cams I am willing to put up with Gotchas. It seems each camera under 10k has its tradeoffs so its all how you want to spend the budget and how much you have.
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Definitely agreeing with you. I'd rather spend the extra money building around the Gh2 as a base with a view into the future as far as moving the accessories to another "brain". I do have more optimism for the Magic Cam than I should, but until that cam's out the price-to-performance (in IQ department) is GH2 territory.

It's a shame that I think A) Panasonic broadcast is going to abandon 4/3 altogether and move to S35 or larger, and B) the GH3 will be a marginal improvement over the GH2, with little to no gains in the departments that matter. Specifically, Dynamic Range and Lowlight Performance.
 
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