GH1 vs Red One vs Canon 5D Mk II footage comparison shoot out!

[Kholi]

Yeah, I think that's an overly bold statement... RED is a player in the market now... like it or not... How much success or longevity they will have, only time will tell... But, there will always be competition, and there isn't gonig to be some camera that comes out and ends it all... even if there is... markets thrive on competition and innovation, and bank on our little gear whore selves buying up their new release every 6 months... They proobably hate me though... I get the bug from time to time... but, I'm just not really into the whole buy the latest greatest camera every 6 months or whatever... hence the appeal of a modular system that can grow with me... to me, anyways.

Later,
Jason

Technically, and just technically, we're all working around Brains now. If we stick with panasonic and they stick with 4/3" systems, we can sell the GH-1 body for 800 or so and just pick up a body only GH-2.

This is the same concept that RED is working on for Scarlet. I think as far as modularity goes, these are just as modular as the Scarlet concept is because all of the gear we accumulate now will go right along with the next iteration.

And it'll be cheap as snot to keep buying the new one. Me is gear whore.

 

[commanderspike]

hence the appeal of a modular system that can grow with me... to me, anyways.

Later,
Jason

The GH1 is a modular system as well - I have 14 lenses and 5 adapters

 

[J Davis]

The GH1 is a modular system as well - I have 14 lenses and 5 adapters

LOL ... true
and u need zoom h4

 

[John Caballero]

But then the GH1 sensor is a NEW thing. It's only just become possible to make a sensor like this and the mass market demanded it first

Now Panasonic should match that big sensor to the HPX170 body and a lot of people would be happy.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

The GH1 is a modular system as well - I have 14 lenses and 5 adapters

but you are stuck with the codec and sdhc cards, and whatever inputs and outputs it has, and the battery, etc, etc

Another appeal of modular... take just the current recording media of red one and the upcoming dsmc's... Compact Flash... But, the recording module is separate from the body/brain.. Allowing RED to take advantage of advances in technology and incorporate them directly into their existing lineups...

Longevity...

though, i get that you were jesting

 

[Barry_Green]

I read an interview with Panasonic a while back, with the team leader for the G series. They allude all the time to aiming stuff at 'the consumer'.

Well, yeah... the G series comes from the consumer division, not the pro division!

There is certainly no tech reason why they couldn't have put it in.

You don't know that. You're assuming. To me it seems like a reasonable assumption, but they must have their reasons.

It may have meant the GH1 costing more and taking longer to develop, for reasons that wouldn't help their consumer market share. So they had to kick it from the schedule.

That is a reasonable assessment, probably. And if it meant adding a feature that the consumer wasn't going to use, there was surely very little incentive to add it!

But if we can talk the Pro/Broadcast division into making their own version of the GH1, I can guarantee those folks will understand loud and clear how important monitoring is.

Who knows what Panasonic's strategy is? They have a gem in their hands, let's hope they cut it well.

Well, and that's the other thing -- we tend to see things from our own perspective as if that's the only perspective that counts. We had that big battle over on the HMC150 site about the guy claiming that nobody wants P2 because nobody was coming into his rental business to rent P2 cameras. And, from his perspective, maybe he was right -- but ONLY from his perspective. Because P2's taken 75 to 95% of the broadcast market for tapeless systems, depending on which country you're talking about.

So yes, we can point out things that are plainly obvious to us that they should do, but we don't see the market from their perspective. Maybe the stars will align and what we want is what they think they should provide... we can only hope. And nag.

 

[Barry_Green]

This is the same concept that RED is working on for Scarlet. I think as far as modularity goes, these are just as modular as the Scarlet concept is because all of the gear we accumulate now will go right along with the next iteration.

Well, sort of. It depends on whether they do something like change out the battery on us. I'm still rocking the same 4 batteries today, on my 170, as I used on my 200, as I used on my 100B, as I used on my 100. I can use the same wide-angle lens and the same filters and mattebox. But if they come along and change something fundamental, that might put a crimp in the strategy.

Me is gear whore.

You don't say.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Technically, and just technically, we're all working around Brains now. If we stick with panasonic and they stick with 4/3" systems, we can sell the GH-1 body for 800 or so and just pick up a body only GH-2.

This is the same concept that RED is working on for Scarlet. I think as far as modularity goes, these are just as modular as the Scarlet concept is because all of the gear we accumulate now will go right along with the next iteration.

And it'll be cheap as snot to keep buying the new one. Me is gear whore.

I hear you, but see my previous post... in the long run, be a lot cheaper to buy a new recording module, or input output module, for potentially a couple hundred bucks or whatever (who knows the price yet), than it will be to pick up that gh4 b/c damn... It's using thhe new uber KholiFlash form factor that allows avc-hd 100! Or, damn... the gh5 has the new usb or firewire interfaces... Whole new camera for those upgrades...

When they are separated from the brrain or body, they become an accessory, and that also increases the amount of options you have.

later,
jason

 

[Kholi]

but you are stuck with the codec and sdhc cards, and whatever inputs and outputs it has, and the battery, etc, etc

Another appeal of modular... take just the current recording media of red one and the upcoming dsmc's... Compact Flash... But, the recording module is separate from the body/brain.. Allowing RED to take advantage of advances in technology and incorporate them directly into their existing lineups...

Longevity...

It's true. You'll have to be stuck with whatever the next version of AVC-HD they bring (Full Spec please... gawd) or MJPEG or whatever. These are the trade-offs that won't change until for a while. It comes down to, or back to--however-- how much are you paying for it?

I'd say if you've invested your initial monies (H4N, Lenses, Adapters, Tripod, NDs and Mattebox, etc etc) then the only thing you have to do is keep upgrading brains if you choose.

If you happen to pick the right lenses then you can move between any of these cameras and always sustain the best of all worlds. And that includes whatever Scarlet may be, considering that it too will be able to utilize the same exact peripherals and accessory investments that you have in your existing "arsenal" at the current.

As it stands, it's only getting the body/brain for me. I have everything I need to make any of these cameras work, I just want a good camera body in general.

 

[Martti Ekstrand]

HDMI output is whatever..

No its not. Think of this way: not happy with the quality of built-in AVC-Intra/HD? Connect a field recorder recording to standard ProRes (or PC equivalent). Not happy with standard ProRes? Connect to a laptop recording and record to ProRes HQ. Not happy with that or in a green-screen studio? Connect to a beefy tower and record uncompressed. The moment the camera outputs 10 bit full HD live at variable frame rates you have a sea of recording options at your disposal. You know, modular!

 

[Kholi]

I hear you, but see my previous post... in the long run, be a lot cheaper to buy a new recording module, or input output module, for potentially a couple hundred bucks or whatever (who knows the price yet), than it will be to pick up that gh4 b/c damn... It's using thhe new uber KholiFlash form factor that allows avc-hd 100! Or, damn... the gh5 has the new usb or firewire interfaces... Whole new camera for those upgrades...

When they are separated from the brrain or body, they become an accessory, and that also increases the amount of options you have.

later,
jason

Yeah that's what I jsut about posted. So, I guess it really doesn't matter. Unless it's a battery fake out, like Barry mentioned, or something else that's camera specific... most of us will already have everything we need to make all this hoohaa work.

It'll just come down to what you want to spend on the "core" of your kit.

 

[Barry_Green]

It's true. You'll have to be stuck with whatever the next version of AVC-HD they bring (Full Spec please... gawd) or MJPEG or whatever.

Maybe, maybe not. If it gets live HDMI output, then you're totally freed up to pursue a NanoFlash or something like that.

 

[Kholi]

No its not. Think of this way: not happy with the quality of built-in AVC-Intra/HD? Connect a field recorder recording to standard ProRes (or PC equivalent). Not happy with standard ProRes? Connect to a laptop recording and record to ProRes HQ. Not happy with that or in a green-screen studio? Connect to a beefy tower and record uncompressed. The moment the camera outputs 10 bit full HD live at variable frame rates you have a sea of recording options at your disposal. You know, modular!

Have you ever tried to tether a camera via HDMI while shooting at long distances?

Let me know how your experience goes. LoL.

TRUST me, there is a very valid reason why Pro Grade HD-SDI connections exist. I would NEVER trust anything important to an HDMI connection UNLESS it was something like the NanoFlash, which is a short connection.

 

[Barry_Green]

Doh -- too late, Martti beat me to it. This thread moves too dang fast.

 

[Kholi]

Maybe, maybe not. If it gets live HDMI output, then you're totally freed up to pursue a NanoFlash or something like that.

I just said that.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

how much are you paying for it?

I don't know... 1500 every 6 months or 3 grand every 6 months or whatever the cost of a new camera is :biggrin:

vs... maybe a couple hundred dollars here and there to take advantage of new technological advances b/c these things aren't hard built into the bodies...

B/c really, a lot of these new cameras every 6 months aren't giving you 1500 dollars worth of upgrades... maybe they are giving you this or that... When I want to pay the cost of a whole new camera, it will be b/c it has a whole new sensor and is truly next gen... not an a or b model or whatever... I'll hope for 300 dollar module upgrades for those incremental advances that these big folk like to nickel and dime us with often times.

Just me tthough

late,
jason

 

[Barry_Green]

Have you ever tried to tether a camera via HDMI while shooting at long distances?

Let me know how your experience goes. LoL.

TRUST me, there is a very valid reason why Pro Grade HD-SDI connections exist. I would NEVER trust anything important to an HDMI connection UNLESS it was something like the NanoFlash, which is a short connection.

Yeah, but ... what if the Nano has a composite output? Then you could strap the nano in close with the HDMI locked down, but use the composite cable for your remote monitoring... or use the nano's HDMI output to an HDMI->HD-SDI box.

Man, we're gettin' all modular over here, ain't we!

 

[Kholi]

I don't know... 1500 every 6 months or 3 grand every 6 months or whatever the cost of a new camera is :biggrin:

vs... maybe a couple hundred dollars here and there to take advantage of new technological advances b/c these things aren't hard built into the bodies...

B/c really, a lot of these new cameras every 6 months aren't giving you 1500 dollars worth of upgrades... maybe they are giving you this or that... When I want to pay the cost of a whole new camera, it will be b/c it has a whole new sensor and is truly next gen... not an a or b model or whatever... I'll hope for 300 dollar module upgrades for those incremental advances that these big folk like to nickel and dime us with often times.

Just me tthough

late,
jason

=( A new camera every six months is technically around 4500.00 or so. But, I don't technically pay that...Thank gawd this stuff pays itself off swiftly or I would probably eat a fistful'a thumb tacks.

 

[ChipG]

If you happen to pick the right lenses then you can move between any of these cameras and always sustain the best of all worlds.

:thumbsup:

This time around I'm buying nice glass that won't be obsolete in 3 years..

 

[Barry_Green]

B/c really, a lot of these new cameras every 6 months aren't giving you 1500 dollars worth of upgrades... maybe they are giving you this or that... When I want to pay the cost of a whole new camera, it will be b/c it has a whole new sensor and is truly next gen... not an a or b model or whatever... I'll hope for 300 dollar module upgrades for those incremental advances that these big folk like to nickel and dime us with often times.

Agreed. But again, many of us are already doing that, through ebay. We buy new, use it until something better is coming around, then sell it off. So my upgrade from an HVX200 to an HPX170 was maybe $500 or so.

What I like about this technique is that it doesn't lock me into any one manufacturer. As much as I like the Lenovo approach, I don't want to be stuck in their line forever; I'll stick with 'em as long as they make the best products at the best prices.

With that said, any time you can reuse your old stuff (like your lenses, tripods, and batteries) that's a huge bonus.