GH1 UK version a better way to go?

Boz

Boz

Well-known member
I'm beginning to think the way to go on the GH1 is to get the UK version. Follow my logic here...

The 1080-25P mode has no cumbersome 60i wrapper to deal with, which is nice. Also, since it's compressing only 25 frames a second instead of 60i frames wouldn't the compression be better as well? The 720-25P mode would give better results than 30P (less frames to compress) and it is much closer to 24P (little to no conversion). The biggest downside I see is the loss of 60P for slow-mo, which while missed, I don't think it's the end of the world.

Am I missing something here? At this point it seems the better way to go. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

(Let's not go back into the general GH1 Pros/Cons - that's been rehashed to death - I'm purely interested in pros/cons of US vs UK version of GH1)
 
Yeah, I can't add anything but I'm interested in knowing more about this myself since I'll be getting a UK camera anyway. If the datarate (VBR for AVCHD and CBR for MJPEG) is the same for PAL as it is for NTSC, then if shared between less fps there's more data for each frame. The question is, will it be significant enough in the real world to make a difference? I guess the only way to know is having two tripod cameras side-by-side shooting the same scene and compare the images visually and counting the numbers...
 
But don't you still have to deal with a 50i wrapper while shooting 25p? Which means it would be compressing 50i fields per second.
 
Whoa, so they put 1080-25P in a 50i wrapper? Color me wrong then! Not as much as benefit as I thought. And no 720-25P mode? Lameness. OK, maybe the Pros aren't as strong as I thought. :-/
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think there's any difference between 25p and 25p in a 50i wrapper.

The codec might treat it as interlaced material, which would mean it's a bit less efficient, but this shouldn't make for any extra work in post.
 
codeloss said:
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think there's any difference between 25p and 25p in a 50i wrapper.
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Your reasoning is correct. We need no pulldown.

Bummer we don't get mjpeg at 25p, or even 50p like Philip Bloom made me believe for a short while. All I can hope for now is that 50p -> 25p works at least as good as 60p -> 24p, which it should.
 
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It should work without flaw, honestly.

The 60 to 24, to me, is just close enough to pass the audience eye, but 24 isn't half of 60.

50 is certainly half of 25 so UK cameras should have it much easier.

I know that a bunch of people will say "you'd better not do that", I dont' think Stu at ProLost agrees at all but from my experience (I'm not legend, though, so take it with a grain of salt) it just looks fine to me.
 
Ian-T said:
But don't you still have to deal with a 50i wrapper while shooting 25p? Which means it would be compressing 50i fields per second.
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Even though it's 50i, both fields were snapped at the same moment in time. That means that for all intents and purposes, the PAL GH1 shoots 1920x1080@25p. No pull down to remove. No conversion in post.

All I can hope for now is that 50p -> 25p works at least as good as 60p -> 24p
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Going from 50 -> 25 is much simpler than 60 to 24. You just need to throw away every other frame!

Another benefit of using a PAL GH1 is that while shooting 1280x720@50p, you can shoot with a 1/50th shutter, which means that you'd be much closer to typical film shutter speeds.

Drawbacks would be:

1- Can't overcrank to 60p (as noted above)
2- Having to deal with sound retiming if you intend to deliver 24p or 23.976p.
3- Possible flickering issues with some artificial light sources in 60hz countries (although shooting 24p should be afflicted by the same problems? No?)
4- Price? How does the euro/pound pricing relate to USD?

-- X
 
Being that I will buying a European model anyway, this has had me thinking. I think it should simplify some of the conversion, going 50i to 25p is usually a pretty straightforward practice. The only thing I'm not straight on is how the 720 is going to work. The specs are saying, 720 50p AVCHD + 720 30p mjpeg, but I saw a post by Phil Bloom where he stated that the model he has only does 50p mjpeg. I think I quoted that right?
I was thinking that going for a 720 25p master was the way to go, using something like JES to create slow mo's. Until the European models start shipping it's a bit of guess really.

If you're across the pond, a dollar conversion will make the European model a bit more expensive!
 
Haven't you americans figured out yet everything is better in the PAL world :)

you could always buy a second GH1 for overcranking
 
I'd love to see the difference between 720 50p AVCHD shot at 1/50 of a second dropped on a 25p timeline vs. 720 60p AVCHD shot at 1/60 of a second dropped on a 24p timeline.

In theory the pal camera should look better.
 
Interesting. So it does sound like the UK version may be a better way to go then. Has a price been announced for that? I'm wonder how much of a premium I would have to pay to enjoy those benefits.

Squig: Buy two? If I could afford two I'd be buying an HMC of some sort, or just waiting for Scarlet. :-)
 
you might have some trouble with 60hz scrolling waves under fluoro and sodium vapor lights but if the bit-rate is the same for 25p you're talking 20% less compression.
 
Wouldn't the same problem (flouro & sodium light flicker) be present in 24P as well? I think the only way to really get rid of that is to shoot 30P / 60P, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
 
I think it's more about setting the shutter speed to 1/60. I haven't heard the D90 shooters in the US complain about not being able get rid of scrolling waves and it's 24p.

The amount of compression may be the same considering the AVCHD is VBR. It's a shame the mjpeg isn't 24p.
 
AdrianF said:
The only thing I'm not straight on is how the 720 is going to work. The specs are saying, 720 50p AVCHD + 720 30p mjpeg, but I saw a post by Phil Bloom where he stated that the model he has only does 50p mjpeg. I think I quoted that right?
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I saw this too and got very excited, because that could give you 720/25p mjpeg without a problem, and since mjpeg would be a lot easier on my system I would shoot it all the time if it were really 50p. I hope the specs are wrong. Philip mentioned it several times so I don't think it was a typo from his side.
 
The quoted price is £1300 inc 15% tax. Remember we get shafted over here on prices, something US folks may want to consider before buying UK stock.

My calculator says about £1100 exc tax, which at $1.5 gives on the order of $1658, plus you've got to add on any import duty (Paying twice, UK and US), and any sales taxes, like our VAT. Oh ye, and shipping.

Dave
 
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