GH1 or Canon T2i?
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Visorblue
Member
If you have a specific need for low light or real shallow DOF the kit may not be your favorite but I've seen some very nice stuff shot with the kit lens. Buddy loves his and used it for some nightclub work in AF, said it really surprised him. I plan to use the kit lens for maybe 80-85% of my work and will add a couple faster lenses to cover the other 20%.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
I agree.. Now that I have the kit, it's not bad. Took me some trial and error to get set up (dang modes that take control drove me nuts.. I want the control!) I found the sweet spots and can get some decent dof and low light with the kit lens. I never use auto focus, but if I had to run and gun I suppose it'd be better to have it than not.
deltoidjohn
Veteran
The GH2 is not yet announced and could be a long way off still. There's no point including it in the comparison because it doesn't exist yet.
The D5000 or D90 only do 720p24, with no 60p or 1080. Plus they don't have manual control and have all the fallbacks of the t2i while being more expensive than it (but cheaper than the GH1). Nikon has fallen out of the HD DSLR race because they haven't offered full manual control yet.
Ben, the GH1 vs 5d comparison is really not relevant seeing as the 5d body is double the price of the GH1 kit. If the OP had that kind of money to spend, he wouldn't have to choose between the t2i and GH1 because he could easily have both.
Also, It should be mentioned that the t2i has several advantages over the 5d as well: smaller and lighter, ability to use cheaper crop lenses, ability to use SD cards instead of CF, PRICE!!!! and crop factor means your telephoto lenses have more reach (and you can't argue that the 5d goes wider, because I've never heard of a 4.5mm lens for a Full Frame sensor. So the T2i with the Sigma 4.5mm lens has a equivelant FOV of 6.75mm which is wider than the 5d with an 8mm fisheye, although I can't ever imagine needing to go wider than that. And super-wide/fisheye lenses are alot cheaper for APS-C cameras so it's actually just as easy to go wide with the t2i as the 5d)
Comparing the GH1 to the t2i, I went with the GH1 and am so glad I did. It's much better designed for video use and the Viewfinder is amazing. The swivel LCD screen is awesome as well. Auto-focus is really great although I ended up selling the kit lens. The t2i's biggest draws would be that it handles 24p better (no 'mud') and there are plenty of native lenses. The GH1 you can adapt plenty of lenses to it but only if they have an aperture ring, which most new ones don't.
Either one will be great though and you'll find plenty of people who are happy with each one for different reasons.
The D5000 or D90 only do 720p24, with no 60p or 1080. Plus they don't have manual control and have all the fallbacks of the t2i while being more expensive than it (but cheaper than the GH1). Nikon has fallen out of the HD DSLR race because they haven't offered full manual control yet.
Ben, the GH1 vs 5d comparison is really not relevant seeing as the 5d body is double the price of the GH1 kit. If the OP had that kind of money to spend, he wouldn't have to choose between the t2i and GH1 because he could easily have both.
Also, It should be mentioned that the t2i has several advantages over the 5d as well: smaller and lighter, ability to use cheaper crop lenses, ability to use SD cards instead of CF, PRICE!!!! and crop factor means your telephoto lenses have more reach (and you can't argue that the 5d goes wider, because I've never heard of a 4.5mm lens for a Full Frame sensor. So the T2i with the Sigma 4.5mm lens has a equivelant FOV of 6.75mm which is wider than the 5d with an 8mm fisheye, although I can't ever imagine needing to go wider than that. And super-wide/fisheye lenses are alot cheaper for APS-C cameras so it's actually just as easy to go wide with the t2i as the 5d)
Comparing the GH1 to the t2i, I went with the GH1 and am so glad I did. It's much better designed for video use and the Viewfinder is amazing. The swivel LCD screen is awesome as well. Auto-focus is really great although I ended up selling the kit lens. The t2i's biggest draws would be that it handles 24p better (no 'mud') and there are plenty of native lenses. The GH1 you can adapt plenty of lenses to it but only if they have an aperture ring, which most new ones don't.
Either one will be great though and you'll find plenty of people who are happy with each one for different reasons.
Ben_B
Veteran
My point about the GH1 vs the 5D is that many of us would choose the GH1 over the 5D regardless of price, I know I would/did. Once you've chosen the Gh1 over the 5D on non-economic reasons the choice between it and the other Canons is obvious. That's not the only point I was making but it is the main one. I suggest you read back over what I was saying.
deltoidjohn
Veteran
Fair enough. I read back over your earlier post and, price taken out of the equation, it makes sense - assuming everyone values the same advantages of the 5d over the t2i that you highlight.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Funny, because for me the opposite was true...
The 7D had too many shortcomings. 12 minute limit, overheating issues, no articulating screen.
Not to mention GH1 had very good 720/60P.
For me, those things were enough to drive me to get the GH1 over the 7D/T2i or any other HDSLR.
Visorblue
Member
Just saw a couple videos testing AF on the kit lens, it looks pretty good.
http://vimeo.com/5264787
http://vimeo.com/4979810
Interesting. I'm a huge fan of the GH1, really love a lot of things about it, but I've had a 5D in my hands for the last week or so, and I haven't turned the GH1 on in that time, hahaha. Now I admit that I've been doing some stuff where I need to get real wide, but I just love the 5D. It's artifacts are more manageable for me, I am astonished by the full frame field of view, I love the ability to push the ISO, I love the stills, and there is a certain something to the video...some of Bloom's comments to me over lunch in Venice a couple of months ago (I was harping on the GH1) make more sense now.
Don't get me wrong, I'd take the GH1 over the T2i in a heartbeat, better ergonomics, lens choices, viewfinder, lcd, and probably image quality too. And I'm glad I don't have to choose between the 5D and the GH1. But I kind of agree with some of the guys like Bloom and Hurlburt, that all the cams are similar enough, but there is something about the 5d...
Ben_B
Veteran
The something about the 5D is the ridiculously shallow DOF.... I am not a huge fan
Also I find the image is generally too damn soft on deep DOF shots (or rather it's next to impossible to get a deep DOF shot especially in poor light...on the GH1 f/5.6 will let you get a wide shot, on the 5D that's still soft.) I also find the moiré can cause some serious serious problems, especially on deep DOF shots. GH1 doesn't do this (and if you think that's bad you should see it MOVING) Awful moiré on the blinds, and some on the couch, codec barf in the shadows...and to top it ALL off...the image is still damn soft:
Which is why we used it for most of the film and especially on another day when the director wanted the 5D but the detail was much too complex for it and I had to say no. The main reason we used it for this scene is we had 2 of them and it sped things up for a scene that was very complex (this is just one of about...60 shots, many of which were "ruined" [we'll be removing it in post with much difficulty] by moiré like this.) This is the shoot that basically sold me on my GH1 over the Canons for all time...not because working with the Canons was more difficult than I thought, far from it, we had special rigs I assembled for the shoot, a monitor, a Z-Finder, the battery grips (quick swaps), etc...I was ready for it to be hell after Gh1 but between all that and the fact that we had 3 camera ops and 3 ACs for 2 cameras, made it perfectly fine to work with (most of the shoots I am camera OPing alone with an AC and a small GH1 rig, which is also great.) Rather, I got turned off by the 5D because I was not happy with a lot of the images that came out of this shoot. Too soft, and too much moiré. Also, I think a few times the camera might have been bumped to the wrong custom setting, and thrown off the image look for a few shots...purely a case of operator error but still something that would not happen on the GH1 (although because it has fewer features, not more.)
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Ben_B
Veteran
Point of comparison, GH1 in a MUCH higher detail area than the 5D (look at the chairs in the foreground) still exhibiting a somewhat aliased image (look at the tops of the out of focus background chairs and some of the aliasing on the chairs) and certainly not as good as a proper video camera, but still MILES better than the 5D. The critical focus areas look a bit sharper too (different lens, different light, to be fair.) When we got out the 5D here and shot a couple test shots (which unfortunately I don't have) this was moiré city...even the out of focus walls had moiré. This image as not as good as a real video camera...but still...look how well some of the detail here is resolved (for an HDSLR.)
cowpunk52
Veteran
I just want to go on record and say that everything Ben B has said so far is right on the money. His experiences exactly mirror mine with the Canon DSLR's, and they are the same reasons that I've chosen the GH1 myself. I still use the 7D pretty regularly at one of my gigs because it's dictated by production - and every time I use it, it reminds me of how much I love & prefer my GH1!
thisisapocalypse
Well-known member
Fully agree and the reason I went with the GH1 - it's amazing how much bias there is towards the Canons though - many folks just don't give the GH1 a chance...
Tracey Lee
Well-known member
are those colors in the blinds above a result of the 5D artifacts only? that's aliasing hell if that's the case. i have noticed this about the gh1...a lot less aliasing going on.
Ron Rodenmeyer
Well-known member
Based on numerous reports and screen shots, the Canons seem to have much more severe aliasing/moire issues AND the aliasing seems to cause a lot of false colors in the Canons.
This is not to bash the Canons. I've never used them, but they seem to be great tools. Like the GH1, they just require a knowledgeable and experienced user who knows what to avoid and/or minimize.
Ben_B
Veteran
That was the 5D.
Funny, I'm one of the GH1 defenders for a year, and I talk about liking the 5D for a moment...and I get my own back, ahaha.
Ben, just a couple of points...I disagree that the special something I like is the ridiculously shallow DOF. I know what that looks like, and I'm not a huge fan either, and I've actually been shooting pretty stopped down with the 5D.
Also if I shot that scene with the blinds with the GH1 I would almost certainly get purple and yellow FPN on places in the white walls. And trust me, I've got fast lenses and have read and tested everything about it, and don't tend to believe in many variances between the cameras, but mine seems to be getting worse...I can shoot a white sail in broad daylight, with no underexposure, and still get it.
Also, the shot in the theater isn't really a fair comparison, as none of the background is in focus...the 5D can make people's head pop with shallow DOF, too.
Don't get me wrong here though, I've shot a couple of personal documentaries on the GH1 and loved it and it looks great on a 72" full 1080p screen. It's still my main camera at this moment. I just kind of feel like it is falling apart and the amount of artifacts caused my editor to ask me to reconsider using it as an 'a-cam' for the next project.
Ben, just a couple of points...I disagree that the special something I like is the ridiculously shallow DOF. I know what that looks like, and I'm not a huge fan either, and I've actually been shooting pretty stopped down with the 5D.
Also if I shot that scene with the blinds with the GH1 I would almost certainly get purple and yellow FPN on places in the white walls. And trust me, I've got fast lenses and have read and tested everything about it, and don't tend to believe in many variances between the cameras, but mine seems to be getting worse...I can shoot a white sail in broad daylight, with no underexposure, and still get it.
Also, the shot in the theater isn't really a fair comparison, as none of the background is in focus...the 5D can make people's head pop with shallow DOF, too.
Don't get me wrong here though, I've shot a couple of personal documentaries on the GH1 and loved it and it looks great on a 72" full 1080p screen. It's still my main camera at this moment. I just kind of feel like it is falling apart and the amount of artifacts caused my editor to ask me to reconsider using it as an 'a-cam' for the next project.
Ben_B
Veteran
I was using the GH1 on set that day as a finder (mainly was using a real SLR as a finder though cause...full frame) and I didn't see any FPN. It was actually pretty darn bright. No moiré either. I was able to open up the iris a bit more and maintain deeper DOF because the sensor is smaller...hooray for small sensors (never thought I'd say that) 
For the theatre I was talking about the detail on the chairs. Look at the ones in front...they're actually pretty cleanly rendered. We took out the 5D and messed around with it a bit and everything turned to colorful moiré poop. Unfortunately I don't have that footage...but it was awful. This whole room was basically one big res chart.
For the theatre I was talking about the detail on the chairs. Look at the ones in front...they're actually pretty cleanly rendered. We took out the 5D and messed around with it a bit and everything turned to colorful moiré poop. Unfortunately I don't have that footage...but it was awful. This whole room was basically one big res chart.