GH1 + Final Cut Pro 7?

[Amr Rahmy]

maybe i'm missing something, log and transfer as i see it, one thing it's in the background, so it can be used as a replacement to the viewer window, after the first clip is done you can use it, you don't wait for the entire card or group of files to be done. it doesn't take much time and makes the editing much faster, making it faster than working "natively" in cs4(not saying cs4 is bad or anything, taking about avchd in cs4 that's all), the few seconds for the trans-coding will not help when ur working much slower, u cant scrub too fast or the system lags holts or crashes every now and again. it's much safer, much more secure and and u'll get much better color corrections with prores.

and second about the wrapping of some formats not being "native" support is just funny.

i haven't used 7 yet, but in past versions, i used avi containers(uncompressed and xvid and divx and most of the ones in quicktime) and mp4(x.264) and wmv(i think), not sure if you need to wrap mpeg ts, u wrap .vob files. the point is, it's not proprietary, ur not limited, or the company making the camera or the codec or file system is not limited or cant make there codec that can be used in fcp.

it could have been a problem if transcoding to prores was not fast, but it's amazingly fast.

 

[Barry_Green]

Well if Apple adds a AVCHDcodec.component file to Library/QuickTime then it will be native.

But not as a file format.

Now I open the Library/QuickTime directory and hey, look what's in there:

AppleHDVCodec.component

Yes, but it again misses the point. FIrst of all, HDV was conceived as a tape format, so it needs to be "captured". It's not a file-based format. Second, if you went to a file-based recorder (such as Sony's compactflash recorder for the Z7) you'll find that you cannot edit what gets recorded, you must convert the file into quicktime.

There's a difference between "the codec is supported" and "the editor can edit the files directly." Whether or not FCP has the codec, it still will prevent you from using the files as recorded, it will always demand a file conversion (or transcode) to quicktime.

Yes FCP has a native AVC-Intra codec component now. But no, if you shoot 5 hours of footage on a card, you can't edit that five hours of footage immediately on FCP, you'd have to wait for Log & Transfer to do its thing. Whereas on EDIUS or Avid, which also have a native AVC-Intra codec component, you could just plug the card in and edit immediately. What's the difference? EDIUS, Avid, Premiere, SpeedEdit, Liquid, and everyone else support the native FILE FORMAT. Apple doesn't, they purposely don't.

In fact, it's actually a little comical, you see Apple and JVC promoting the new HM100 and HM700 as sporting "the world's fastest workflow." Meaning that you shoot, and then you edit immediately. Like this is something new? People have been doing that for YEARS with other editors. It's only that Apple prevents you from doing it (unless you're using a camera that records Quicktime).

 

[Martti Ekstrand]

Second, if you went to a file-based recorder (such as Sony's compactflash recorder for the Z7) you'll find that you cannot edit what gets recorded, you must convert the file into quicktime.

Really? I thought that since HDV could now be grabbed over Firewire it would be smarter than this. Little did I know...

There's a difference between "the codec is supported" and "the editor can edit the files directly." Whether or not FCP has the codec, it still will prevent you from using the files as recorded, it will always demand a file conversion (or transcode) to quicktime.

Ahh, I get it. I'm so used to render out video clips from After Effects and then just pop it into the FCP timeline I assumed that it could just be done with a QuickTime .component available. Well if the process just entailed getting the .mts files into a QT wrapper it would be OK but this Log & Transfer transcoding to ProRes and ProRes only is truly daft. And time consuming.

In fact, it's actually a little comical, you see Apple and JVC promoting the new HM100 and HM700 as sporting "the world's fastest workflow." Meaning that you shoot, and then you edit immediately. Like this is something new? People have been doing that for YEARS with other editors. It's only that Apple prevents you from doing it (unless you're using a camera that records Quicktime).

Indeed comical, especially since FCP when I started to use it was the most 'open' usable NLE around. AVID at the time really made users jump through hoops to get files into the Media Composer if it was at all possible. I owned a Media100 system for years and you could drag in any QuickTime file to a project but it had to transcode/render to it's own codec for realtime playback - ahhh sweet deja vú!

it could have been a problem if transcoding to prores was not fast, but it's amazingly fast.

As far I as I've tested it it's roughly 1.5 times the real-time of the clips on my system so if I'm out shooting for a day coming back with 4 hours of material that's a 6 hour transcode session. I'd never trust running such a process in the background while editing for a longer period of time. A sure recipe for disaster. So that's really time wasted, especially if out in the field making a documentary for example. Enough to make hotel room quick rough cuts a impossibility without lugging around two laptops.

it's much safer, much more secure and and u'll get much better color corrections with prores.

I've never said I need to make perfect colour corrections on the native material, only be able to pick out what I need in a rough assembly, then transcode that for final edit, CC and fx. To any codec/s of my choice as I don't find ProRes all that it's supposed to be.

and second about the wrapping of some formats not being "native" support is just funny.

i haven't used 7 yet, but in past versions, i used avi containers(uncompressed and xvid and divx and most of the ones in quicktime) and mp4(x.264) and wmv(i think), not sure if you need to wrap mpeg ts, u wrap .vob files. the point is, it's not proprietary, ur not limited, or the company making the camera or the codec or file system is not limited or cant make there codec that can be used in fcp.

That's just the point, it should be easy for Apple to add this kind of support for AVCHD in FCP but they haven't. Despite AVCHD cameras are coming fast and plenty from all major camera manufacturers right now and will keep on coming. This ain't exactly a issue just for GH1 owners.

 

[Kerplunk]

Yes FCP has a native AVC-Intra codec component now. But no, if you shoot 5 hours of footage on a card, you can't edit that five hours of footage immediately on FCP, you'd have to wait for Log & Transfer to do its thing. Whereas on EDIUS or Avid, which also have a native AVC-Intra codec component, you could just plug the card in and edit immediately. What's the difference? EDIUS, Avid, Premiere, SpeedEdit, Liquid, and everyone else support the native FILE FORMAT. Apple doesn't, they purposely don't.

Sorry I don't have any HDV footage to test with or I would. Just curious - with HDV being a QT codec now, would it be possible to open that footage in QT Pro and simply do a Save? That would maybe put it in a QT wrapper without the need for any time consuming conversion. I know that's what I've been doing with D90 AVI files to edit them in Premiere.

Barry, I agree with your taking exception to my disagreeing with your statement regarding QT and supported codecs needing to be in the QT format to edit in FCP. Of course, you're correct - they do need to be in the QT file format. And Apple only supports codecs that they've included in QT. Historically, there have been many reasons given for this. Not saying I totally agree with all of them. However, it has allowed Apple to protect the integrity of the QT format and assure a certain level of compatibility, interoperability and consistency across applications that support it. This may be one reason it's hard to find another file format that offers as much.

Having never had to deal with a lengthly transcode, I can't fully appreciate your frustration. Guess I've just been fortunate to either have something already in a QT container or been able to easily put it in a QT wrapper in order to work with it; without the need for a time consuming conversion process.

I switched from FCP to Premiere a couple of years ago simply due to Premiere's dynamic linking with After Effects and the the tight integration between all the CS3 apps. Not to mention the low educational pricing on the Adobe Suites. Have to admit there have been many times i miss FCP, but this whole AVCHD thing has me feeling much better about it. And Premiere continues to improve. Now if I could only get my hands on a GH1!

One thing I've learned from my short time monitoring this forum is that I don't know squat compared to most of the posters. But that's one of the reasons I'm here. So most of the time, I'll just be lurking and learning. However, there will be times when I feel the need to jump in. And I feel completely comfortable here in doing so. That says a lot for the professionalism of this forum. I like the way people are free to challenge and have an intelligent, respectful discussion. This is rare. This is a very cool place.

 

[Amr Rahmy]

only be able to pick out what I need in a rough assembly, then transcode that for final edit, CC and fx.

ok so, instead of:

1- log and transfer what you actually want from a file
2- edit the prores easily and extremely fast and adjusting and controlling your color correction.

you say u want to:

1- edit the native file that was not exactly designed for editing, which would be painful to scrub through and really dodgee.
2- transcode that for final edit(where u might find yourself realigning your edit points), edit, cc and fx.

it doesn't seem very fast your way of doing things?

and the first part of your plan is the log and transfer idea, it's just a different window or ui.

i have sat through tapes before(not digital) that was more like a data management thing, where it takes time, it's an extra step, log and transfer for file based formats is not. u can choose what you want and only transcode that, not 4 hours of footage just what you need.

 

[Martti Ekstrand]

I've 25 years of pro editing experience under my belt beginning with 35mm film on Steenbeck flatbeds and have moved through basically every edit method since - be very very sure I know perfectly well how to judge what's the fastest workflow for me.

 

[jedbarish]

Premiere CS4 on Macbook Pro still could not edit very smooth. Does anyone could edit AVCHD on Macbook pro and review playback smoothly?