GH1 + Final Cut Pro 7?

F

Finster

Well-known member
I've been out of the loop. Just read about the new Final Cut Pro 7. Lifted from Apple's web site:

"Final Cut Pro 7 makes it easy to work with the latest high-quality cameras from Panasonic. Native support for the AVC-Intra format means you can ingest footage directly into Final Cut Pro at high speeds — without transcoding. Work with real-time effects and edit with multiple streams, thanks to ultrafast decoding of both 50-Mbps and 100-Mbps formats."

What does that mean?!?!? Can we now edit AVCHD directly within FCP7?

Sorry if this has already been discussed.
 
Nope, only AVC-Intra which is a higher end variation of AVC, from what I understand. Unfortunately we still have to transcode AVCHD for FCP.
 
Does anyone really really want to edit in AVCHD? It's kind of not that great an experience with any existing software/hardware and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Right now what I've been doing is just looking at my footage and picking what to log and transfer, and it sounds like FC7 makes this easier, and allow me to set in-out points in the log and transfer window. I am very excited.
 
I haven't tried this because I don't have either the GH1 or FCP7 yet, but couldn't you just L&T all your footage at ProRes proxy to save initial drive space, do your edit, then use the media manager to transcoding only used footage to the higher quality ProRes codec of your choice?
 
Ben_B said:
Right now what I've been doing is just looking at my footage and picking what to log and transfer, and it sounds like FC7 makes this easier, and allow me to set in-out points in the log and transfer window.
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Oooooo, nice. I can do this in Toast, but it'll be a bonus to be able to do this in FCP.
 
commanderspike said:
Are there any editing apps that can process AVCHD natively? Premiere CS4 maybe?
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Sony Vegas, Grass Valley EDIUS and EDIUS Neo, and Premiere Pro CS4.1. Premiere is the fastest if you have a graphics card that Premiere can take advantage of, such as an nVidia CUDA-compatible card.

There are lots of other, consumer-level apps that handle AVCHD natively, such as Pinnacle, Ulead, and Nero.

In short, just about everybody but Apple and Avid have current native AVCHD support.
 
Ben_B said:
Does anyone really really want to edit in AVCHD?
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Yes.
It's kind of not that great an experience with any existing software/hardware and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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But when it does, the question will become: would anyone really, really, want to transcode?

So, for those HDV users out there: now that every app supports native HDV editing, do you transcode?

Hmmm. Didn't think so.

:D
 
Ben_B said:
Does anyone really really want to edit in AVCHD? It's kind of not that great an experience with any existing software/hardware and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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I do it all the time in Premiere CS4.1 on an older 2006 Mac Pro. Makes smaller projects more fun. Plus it saves me a ton of HD space for nightly backups.
 
Barry_Green said:
In short, just about everybody but Apple and Avid have current native AVCHD support.
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I got pretty slammed by some FCP gurus over at Creative Cow for having the indecency to suggest that FCP should handle a "distribution format" (their words) like AVCHD natively...

Unlike FCP's Log & Transfer in Toast you can pick multiple sections from several .mts clips in one go, not just one in-out point part per clip. Unless this has changed with FCP7. That's a big time saver when sifting through footage.

Native AVCHD editing is not a storage space thing for me, that's cheap these day but for time-is-really-money reasons I'd love to add AVCHD files straight to the timeline for viewing and selection - then transcode the selection before final editing, CC and fx.

I'll wait and see if Snow Leopard with Quicktime X adds native AVCHD .mts file support, if it does I probably update FCP, if not I'll take a good long look at moving over to Premiere instead.
 
Transcoding to another codec like Pro Res might be fine for short edits, but if doing documentary work including interviews, then transcoding hours of footage just to select a few takes is a bit tedious. If you're on the road shooting and doing nightly logging, then IMO it's not even something you'd want to consider.

I can see that the Pro Res proxy codec could be useful in this case, depending on how 'on the fly' it is.
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
I'll wait and see if Snow Leopard with Quicktime X adds native AVCHD .mts file support
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No need to wait -- I can guarantee you right now that it will not. Apple will not support working with file formats other than Quicktime. Their mantra is that "all files MUST be converted to Quicktime".
 
AdrianF said:
Transcoding to another codec like Pro Res might be fine for short edits, but if doing documentary work including interviews, then transcoding hours of footage just to select a few takes is a bit tedious.
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Not just "a bit tedious", it may in fact prevent you from finishing your edit on time, if you're involved in something like a wedding same-day-edit.

This is not really an issue to be blown out of proportion -- for some people, this is a complete non-issue. There are many FCP users who will happily configure their system to transcode all their files overnight, so to them, it is not even an inconvenience. And there are others who actually EMBRACE this limitation (and, regardless of any other spin, it *is* a limitation) because they welcome it as a way to "force" them to back up their footage. To each his own, I say.

However, for those to whom it IS a problem, it behooves you to be aware that this particular limitation is an inherent workflow restriction with Apple and peculiar to Apple and it's not going to go away. Therefore, if this "prevention of instant editing" is a problem for you, FCP is not the editor for you. If you still want to use a Mac, look at Premiere CS4 instead, or wait for a revision to Avid, etc. Or, hope that someone comes along with a "Raylight" type of application that will overcome the Quicktime-only exclusion Apple enforces.

Again, this is NOT an issue for many people. It is up to each individual to decide whether it's an issue for them.
 
Barry_Green said:
No need to wait -- I can guarantee you right now that it will not. Apple will not support working with file formats other than Quicktime. Their mantra is that "all files MUST be converted to Quicktime".
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Afraid I must disagree with this on face value. One of the beauties of QT has always been that it's basically a "container" within which Apple can choose to support almost anything they choose to. For example, H.264 is not an Apple exclusive. We can go all the way back to QT 1.0 when there was a paucity of available codecs. Since that time, Apple has added scores of new codecs to QT. You can even add a Flash track to a QT movie if so desired.

Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would be that their mantra is, "all files MUST be compatible with QT, otherwise you need to convert."

It would certainly be in Apple's interests to natively support AVCHD, if at all possible.
 
It starts to become a bit more of a limitation when you eat up drive space. Sure drives are cheap but it's much easier to cut natively and save on space then deal with Prores eating up 50 - 60 gigs of space per project. I am seriously thinking of jumping off the Final Cut train for native editing in Premiere or Edius. That's just my experience though.
 
No need to wait -- I can guarantee you right now that it will not. Apple will not support working with file formats other than Quicktime.
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That's how I interpreted the info ( or lack of info on native AVCHD ) on Apples site. I'm seriously considering buying a PC laptop purely for logging and rough cutting a project in the Autumn and I've been completely Mac only for a few years now.
 
AdrianF said:
I'm seriously considering buying a PC laptop purely for logging and rough cutting a project in the Autumn and I've been completely Mac only for a few years now.
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It's not a Mac limitation, it's an FCP limitation. You could stay on the Mac, you'd just have to look at changing your editing software. Premiere Pro CS4.1 supports native AVCHD, native DVCPRO-HD, and (very shortly, presumably) native AVC-Intra. You don't have to leave the Mac, you just have to consider whether FCP is the appropriate software for your intended usage.
 
Kerplunk said:
Afraid I must disagree with this on face value.
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But -- why? Quicktime is, inherently, a file format. I said that FCP refuses to work with file formats other than Quicktime. That has no reference to the "contents" of the file, whether it's a container for something else or not. I said that Apple's new mantra is "all file formats must be converted to quicktime." I didn't say anything about converting the contents of the file, only that whatever file you have (be it an .m2ts, or MXF, or whatever), Apple now requires you to change that file format into Quicktime before FCP will allow you to work with it. (a few legacy file formats notwithstanding).

So -- are you sure you disagree with my statement on face value? Because I'm pretty certain it's worded correctly and accurately reflects the situation.

It would certainly be in Apple's interests to natively support AVCHD, if at all possible.
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Oh, it's possible, as every other editor out there has shown. Even sub-$100 editors like NeroVision and Pinnacle and Ulead all support it. "Lite" editors like EDIUS Neo 2 and Vegas Movie Studio support it. So it's entirely possible. Apple just refuses to.

So let's examine that statement, because there's an interesting dichotomy there. It would certainly be in the interests of Apple's FCP USERS for Apple to natively support AVCHD. Of that I think we can all agree. But it appears that Apple thinks it's in their own interest to NOT support it. They appear to be placing first and foremost their own desire to enforce Quicktime as a universal standard, over the idea of making FCP as flexible as other editors. It is a case of what's in the users' best interest being at odds with what Apple thinks their best interest is.

Only the users can decide how this one plays out.
 
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Barry_Green said:
No need to wait -- I can guarantee you right now that it will not. Apple will not support working with file formats other than Quicktime. Their mantra is that "all files MUST be converted to Quicktime".
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Well if Apple adds a AVCHDcodec.component file to Library/QuickTime then it will be native.

Basically same kind of FCP gurus that slams me now for suggesting native AVCHD support slammed me some years back that HDV will never be QT native as it's MPEG2 long GOP, a "distribution format - unsuitable for editing", so I should just be a nice puppy and capture from tape over Component or SDI instead of FireWire like they, wise old men did. Now I open the Library/QuickTime directory and hey, look what's in there:

AppleHDVCodec.component

Not that I personally had anything to do with that except some online b****ing and one feature suggestion through FCP's feedback function. Can't say I'm overly optimistic though that it will happen with AVCHD. Then again somebody like the Perian guys might add it no matter what Apple thinks about it.
 
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