GH1 DOF Vs HMC-150/HPX170

studio1972 said:
... silly to restrict the hmc to f/4 and narrower when you would obviously open it up and apply nd filters to achieve shallow dof. ...
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No one's asking you to restrict it.

But the claim:
studio1972 said:
...with the stock lens the DOF isn't that much shallower than a 1/3 camera...
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isn't accurate.

If I stand at the other end of the football field and zoom all the way in on a 150, 200, 170, EX1, jump up and down and stand on one leg, I can get SDOF too.

But the those cams at the same Fstop and focal length as the GH1 will have deeper DOF.

GH1 is a system that yields inherently shallower DOF without standing on your head. If the 150 was nearly equivalent there would be no 35mm adapter industry. In fact, why do you own one? The DOF is fairly equiv to the GH1. Since the DOF for a 150 is so simillar seems like it would not be worth having a DOF adapter.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
No one's asking you to restrict it.

But the claim:

isn't accurate.

If I stand at the other end of the football field and zoom all the way in on a 150, 200, 170, EX1, jump up and down and stand on one leg, I can get SDOF too.

But the those cams at the same Fstop and focal length as the GH1 will have deeper DOF.

GH1 is a system that yields inherently shallower DOF without standing on your head. If the 150 was nearly equivalent there would be no 35mm adapter industry. In fact, why do you own one? The DOF is fairly equiv to the GH1. Since the DOF for a 150 is so simillar seems like it would not be worth having a DOF adapter.
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I wouldn't say that opening up the aperture and flicking the nd filter switch is in any way akin to standing on your head. It's exactly what any person would do. You can attach a prime lens to an adapter or a GH1 to get much shallower DOF than the HMC or the GH1 + stock lens.

The GH1 gets slightly shallower DOF with the stock lens as you demonstrated with your straw man, but you need a prime lens for it to really stand apart.

You keep arguing against statements that I never made in the first place. This is quite annoying and doesn't do you any justice IMO.
 
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If you are interested, I just posted a GH1 wedding video on vimeo:

http://www.vimeo.com/6421216

It was quick and dirty, all is handheld, with kit lens, no grading.

What you can see is the SDOF you get with the kit lens, even at f5.8.

best regards, Gunther
 
studio1972 said:
I would say that opening up the aperture and flicking the nd filter switch is in any way akin to standing on your head. It's exactly what any person would do. You can attach a prime lens to an adapter or a GH1 to get much shallower DOF than the HMC or the GH1 + stock lens.
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Having to zoom all the way in with the HMC stock lens and still not getting shallow depth of field and then having to use a 35mm adapter and rail system is what I believe what he meant by standing on your head.

That picture does not exactly represent a slight edge, more of a substantial edge, especially given the differing apertures.
 
Y'know, I think this whole thing would have gone down better had it been about how slow the GH1 lens is, rather than on the DOF...

... because, seriously -- an HMC150, at 1.6 and full wide angle, might match the GH1 at 4.0. Fine. Very limited circumstance, but fine. At any other f-stop, the GH1 wins. 2.0 vs. 4.0? Gh1 wins. 2.8 vs. 4.0? Gh1 stomps. 4.0 vs. 4.0? Gh1 destroys. So you've got a very extremely limited window of where the HMC150 could potentially compete (assuming, of course, that shallow DOF is all that you're after).

But what if you want shallower? Well, there, you have to use something additional, an add-on product. With the HMC150, you're talking about a Letus Extreme or Brevis or Redrock rig, for another $2,000.

With the GH1 you're talking about a $50 lens off ebay.

So, I guess, put another way -- the GH1 can never be worse, and will almost always be better, and frequently will be substantially better in providing the shallow DOF look, and is capable of being astonishingly better.
 
Barry_Green said:
Y'know, I think this whole thing would have gone down better had it been about how slow the GH1 lens is, rather than on the DOF...

... because, seriously -- an HMC150, at 1.6 and full wide angle, might match the GH1 at 4.0. Fine. Very limited circumstance, but fine. At any other f-stop, the GH1 wins. 2.0 vs. 4.0? Gh1 wins. 2.8 vs. 4.0? Gh1 stomps. 4.0 vs. 4.0? Gh1 destroys. So you've got a very extremely limited window of where the HMC150 could potentially compete (assuming, of course, that shallow DOF is all that you're after).

But what if you want shallower? Well, there, you have to use something additional, an add-on product. With the HMC150, you're talking about a Letus Extreme or Brevis or Redrock rig, for another $2,000.

With the GH1 you're talking about a $50 lens off ebay.

So, I guess, put another way -- the GH1 can never be worse, and will almost always be better, and frequently will be substantially better in providing the shallow DOF look, and is capable of being astonishingly better.
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Factually speaking that is pretty much what I said in the first place (admittedly spinned another way), 7 pages back. Thanks for the discourse though. :beer:
 
In defense of the Thread starter:

Before I bought the GH1 I exactly wanted to know what he tried to demonstrate. I wanted to know how shallow the DOF with the stock lens is. Because I didn't want to buy additional lenses in the next few months, because I primary wanted to use it for personal work, holiday and such.

I actually don't understand why everybody is so upset about him. He was just comparing the stock lens capabilities to other cameras. He didn't even want to bash the camera.

So lets all be friends now and play with our awesome GH1 cameras :D
 
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