Gh1 audio

I produced an album for a group called PNAU. We did a 12" single on vinyl. I got bored and needed something more challenging and I have a few stories to tell.

The rode and Oktava mic's are well regarded and not too expensive. I have the NTG1, thought it was an NTG2, that's the powered one. I'm gonna get an NT3 for indoors.
 
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stephenvv said:
As does my HV30 - but also crappy preamps, monitoring lacks stereo split, terrible limit and ground loop noise.

So I just got a Zoom H4n (improved preamps and other better features than earlier models).
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My HV20 with a JuicedLink preamp sounds actually very decent if you dial the in-camera gain to about 25%. The only part of the chain that is unbalanced is about 6 inches of cable between the amp and the camera. No hiss. (Note that JuicedLinks actually have good *preamps* unlike most BeachTeks who are only passive adapters... and will probably sound bad with cameras that have crap preamps such as the HV20).

My point was, if a little cam like the HV20 can have manual gain, on screen level metering and a headphone jack for live monitoring, so can stills/motion hybrids such as the GH1.

These features are not expensive to add, are not complex technically, and do not require vast amounts of volume for the hardware.

When coupled with a good preamp with balanced XLR inputs and actual physical gain controls, these features actually make on-board audio recording *plausible* for at least *some* scenarios.

Dual system is fine when doing fiction-type work when you can slate and resync everything in post.

For run-and-gun or one-man-band photojournalists, having sync-sound is actually a benefit, believe it or not. :-)


- Xavier
 
Androwski said:
Cool! A lot of record producers switch to filmmaking, I wonder why? What is/was your artist name? Did you release any vinyls or just digital?

Sorry for being OT...
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I also was a record producer with own label, publishing company etc....its a dead business. So is filmmusic, which I did a lot ( as composer).
back to the topic: isnt the Tascam better than the Zoom ? I mean the buttons and handling on the Tascam seem so much better and less menue driven!

I am still unsure which one to get. One of the two for sure but.....
 
So what's the problem with using the H4N with a mic on a boom? I think this was mentioned once and no one said anything about it.

I think a lot of you are thinking that you have to have the H4N somewhere near the actors, but you can easily plug a mic into it and run a boom.
 
GH1 audio auto level is horrible!

Just finished a very quick project (I'm not going to post it here it's too embarassing). Visually it's OK but the sound.........

I didn't use the built in mikes, I know how bad they are. I used A Senheisser MKE 300 with wind shield. The subject was about 2 meters away, there was a lot of background noise going on, air conditioner and a man digging up the paving. (not ideal conditions I know, but it had to be done there and then).

While it picked up the voice fine, the auto level control is so fast and dramatic, any slight pause in the voice and the backround is boosted up to rediculous levels.

Honestly, this combined with the fact that you cannot monitor the sound live meens this camera is for (lovely) vision only. Honestly, I never known anyhting as bad even on domestic mini DV camcorders the auto audio gain was nothing like this.

Am going to buy an external audio recorder.
 
I wonder whether the MKE300 was too sensitive. I've found the GH1 sound to be no worse than expectation (and I'm a recording engineer). Definitely better when used with the Rode SVM but it was necessary to reduce the level with its -10dB switch. It does knock down peaks very fast but doesn't seem to increase the volume of quiet bits to silly levels.

But indeed, serious audio requires a serious external audio system.
 
So if I understand correctly, the uncontrolable auto-gain makes external (I have Zoom H4n) a must to record live music. I am new and just wondering how hard is it to sync in post? I have seen so many video's where it seems clearly not to match at (at times) although seemed like it was acceptable as being inevidable. Any thoughts?
 
Shouldn't be that hard. I recently illegally video'd a cello recital (as a test not for distribution) and it was the work of a couple of minutes to sync it to the separate (legal!) audio recording. The scale of the problem partly depends on how similar the clocks of the camera and recorder are. They are bound to gradually drift apart. If the drift is fast, it will show sooner rather than later. If it's slow, you might not need to correct in real situations. Correction can be by stretching/shrinking the audio or by splitting the audio at inconspicuous points just before the difference becomes noticable, and re-dragging it into sync as required.
 
Thanks Oz, that makes total sense. Was not thinking about the ability to split like that, only about the poor sync that I often see in video's and would not work for me and how to aviod at all cost.
Taping (and Sync) something like a Cello would seem to be even harder with all those cool overtones.
 
The hard bit was hand-holding the GH1 dead still throughout a 25 minute piece, while also attending to the audio recording which was was for FM radio broadcast! The latter was fortunately ok, the former had its earthquake moments....!
 
So on that score, do any of the small/portable recording devices have a clear advantage over the others when it comes to synching the sound? e.g. is it worth purchasing the slightly more expensive Zoom H4n instead of a Zoom H4 because it gives relatively better synch accuracy? Also, is this all academic if the device is only being used for capturing say short takes on a low budget drama?
 
didn't go through all the messages to see if anyone else mentioned it... but i've been using the olympus LS-10. i'm no audio expert, but have had good results, other than the audio sync problem. gh1 should be here next week, and it will be one of the first things put to the test, i'm sure. i also have a lav mic that plugs into the LS-10, and a tascam tm-st1. the tascam should work with the gh1, so that will be nice.

as a guy a few posts back says, it's been a matter of cutting out sections of the audio to re-sync. i tried quite a lot to just change the speed of the audio - - the theory being that both units are in sync with themselves, and therefore an overall reduction in audio (or slow down of video) would do the trick - - but that never seemed to pan out. maybe someone has some insight on that?
 
As I see it, sync accuracy is all down to the clock chip on each device. The GH1 clock runs at a certain speed - how accurate it is I have no idea. Each audio device also happens to run at a certain speed (and that can well vary from one otherwise identical device to another). Say the GH1 actually runs a bit slow. Then you need to find an audio device that also happens to run a bit slow. If you bought a really expensive audio device with a very accurate clock, it might be too accurate for the GH1, if you get my drift (ouch).

If you want properly synchronised audio, you need to use audio and video equipment with timecode support. Otherwise it's a lottery. However, if you are doing something other than event-type work with long takes, holding sync for a matter of seconds or even a minute or two isn't going to be a problem. The problem then becomes that for every shot you've got to line up the audio later, yawn.
 
Hello,

I'll give a 2nd vote to Plural Eyes software.

I just did a test project (about 15 min long) with two cameras (GH1 and another) and an LS-10 and Plural Eyes put them perfectly together in under a minute.
 
I shot this one afternoon:
http://www.vimeo.com/6303210

I used the GH1 for video and a Canon XL1S without the lens (pretty convenient when using the neck strap and a long audio cable) for audio. We recorded simultanously with both cameras. In this particular video, the microphone is directly attached to the Canon, therefore there is a bit noise in the background, but that is totally acceptable. I did not nearly master the volumes, it was just something we did for fun, but it was good practice for audio/video sync in post. I'd say, cheapest way is to get a camcorder without audiogain and plug a mic in and use it as a recorder. Mini-DV also records seperate clips, so you won't have to cut a huge band in to scenes.

Good day sir.
 
Ozpeter said:
As I see it, sync accuracy is all down to the clock chip on each device. The GH1 clock runs at a certain speed - how accurate it is I have no idea. Each audio device also happens to run at a certain speed (and that can well vary from one otherwise identical device to another). Say the GH1 actually runs a bit slow. Then you need to find an audio device that also happens to run a bit slow. If you bought a really expensive audio device with a very accurate clock, it might be too accurate for the GH1, if you get my drift (ouch).

If you want properly synchronised audio, you need to use audio and video equipment with timecode support. Otherwise it's a lottery. However, if you are doing something other than event-type work with long takes, holding sync for a matter of seconds or even a minute or two isn't going to be a problem. The problem then becomes that for every shot you've got to line up the audio later, yawn.
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Where you wrote:

"If you want properly synchronised audio, you need to use audio and video equipment with timecode support. Otherwise it's a lottery."

That is a serious concern for me. I want to have virtually perfect audio sync with GH1 and Zoom H4n. I have been encouraged by the Eddy R and others that feel for live music the outboard H4n is a must. However, I must have "properly synchronized audio." as there will be multiple singers close ups etc.

Wondering if I had not better keep saving for two HMC 150's and track the live audio on them with the ability to have the adjustable gain.

Two camera, live music in churches and coffeehouse environments are the goal.

Additionally, what are the entry points for Video/New SLR's w/ video capabilities with time code if that is clearly a better option because sync of audio is essential as I am a major critic of imperfect audio sync on live music video.

Mucho thanks for any thought
 
doing a classroom shoot with the GH1 tomorrow...probably on-camera sound....going to hope for the best...sound quality is not a must, I'm just capturing some stuff that's going on, just using the Gh1 because the image will be a little nicer than with the Eviro cam they have...will let you know how it goes. Bringing zoom H2 along just in case cause it's what I have access to but not optimistic about it's sound quality at distance.
 
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