I wouldn't say somewhat limited, you can use affordable Contax Zeiss, Nikon manual lenses, and plenty of other choices on the Canons. It's not as versatile as the GH1 for lenses, but it's no slouch or as limited as you suggest.
GH1 and T2i which is the one, no flame here
- Thread starter Cieloent
- Start date
I wouldn't say somewhat limited, you can use affordable Contax Zeiss, Nikon manual lenses, and plenty of other choices on the Canons. It's not as versatile as the GH1 for lenses, but it's no slouch or as limited as you suggest.
cowpunk52
Veteran
At the very least, if nothing else, the new firmware hack brings the GH1 on par with the Canon's offerings in terms of price/performance/features. It's still not a 100% perfect total package, but it also has several great things that are missing in the Canons. None of them are perfect.
So, I'm the one that posted those comparison screengrabs between the 5D & Gh1(3). After doing a lot testing and comparison between the two, I decided to sell the 5D mark II and keep the GH13. For me, the choice came down to these factors:
1) I can use the GH1 for wide & deep DOF in situations where a 5DII would choke on colored moire, and still get creamy bokeh when I want shallow DOF.
2) I own a much wider selection of great glass to use with the GH13 because of how easy it is to adapt lenses. I'm covered from 7mm to 400mm.
3) Conversion to ProRes takes significantly less time with AVCHD vs Canon's h.264
4) I found that several of Canon's zoom lenses can't be counted on giving me an accurate t-stop in accordance with it's f-stop as compared to what I experience with m4/3 lenses & legacy prime glass. I think this is why the GH1 can "feel" more light sensitive when compared. I know this is a lens issue, and primes are probably much better to use to get a fast aperture, but it really itches my craw when I expect to get a certain brightness out of lens, and it doesn't deliver (I'm looking at you 24-105 f4 L).
5) GH13 feels sharper, and I personally like that look. When I tried to sharpen the 5DII to match, I got halos.
6) I find the overall shooting experience to be much more pleasant with the GH1, thanks to the swivel screen, EVF & lighter weight
Finally, most of the reasons that caused me to get a 5DII to use in lieu of the GH1 in the first place have been alleviated by the firmware hack: pulldown, mud & PAL shooting modes being the most important for me. For me, since the firmware hack, the only thing that the 5DII had over my GH1 was shallower DOF and about 2-3 stops ISO advantage. When it came down to it, I was sitting on a depreciating piece of gear that could be traded in for something as much or more useful to me.
I can still certainly see why someone would choose a 5D II over a GH1. Better ISO performance combined with a Vista Vision sized sensor is a huuuuuggee deal, but for me, not a dealbreaker. Granted, my 5D II has only been gone for a little over a day now, but I haven't missed it yet
For someone in the market, though, the choice between a GH1, T2i & a 7D, however, just got a lot more difficult - especially once you realize the crop factor of the GH1 vs APS-C is more minimal than once thought due to the GH1's oversized sensor.
So, I'm the one that posted those comparison screengrabs between the 5D & Gh1(3). After doing a lot testing and comparison between the two, I decided to sell the 5D mark II and keep the GH13. For me, the choice came down to these factors:
1) I can use the GH1 for wide & deep DOF in situations where a 5DII would choke on colored moire, and still get creamy bokeh when I want shallow DOF.
2) I own a much wider selection of great glass to use with the GH13 because of how easy it is to adapt lenses. I'm covered from 7mm to 400mm.
3) Conversion to ProRes takes significantly less time with AVCHD vs Canon's h.264
4) I found that several of Canon's zoom lenses can't be counted on giving me an accurate t-stop in accordance with it's f-stop as compared to what I experience with m4/3 lenses & legacy prime glass. I think this is why the GH1 can "feel" more light sensitive when compared. I know this is a lens issue, and primes are probably much better to use to get a fast aperture, but it really itches my craw when I expect to get a certain brightness out of lens, and it doesn't deliver (I'm looking at you 24-105 f4 L).
5) GH13 feels sharper, and I personally like that look. When I tried to sharpen the 5DII to match, I got halos.
6) I find the overall shooting experience to be much more pleasant with the GH1, thanks to the swivel screen, EVF & lighter weight
Finally, most of the reasons that caused me to get a 5DII to use in lieu of the GH1 in the first place have been alleviated by the firmware hack: pulldown, mud & PAL shooting modes being the most important for me. For me, since the firmware hack, the only thing that the 5DII had over my GH1 was shallower DOF and about 2-3 stops ISO advantage. When it came down to it, I was sitting on a depreciating piece of gear that could be traded in for something as much or more useful to me.
I can still certainly see why someone would choose a 5D II over a GH1. Better ISO performance combined with a Vista Vision sized sensor is a huuuuuggee deal, but for me, not a dealbreaker. Granted, my 5D II has only been gone for a little over a day now, but I haven't missed it yet
For someone in the market, though, the choice between a GH1, T2i & a 7D, however, just got a lot more difficult - especially once you realize the crop factor of the GH1 vs APS-C is more minimal than once thought due to the GH1's oversized sensor.At the very least, if nothing else, the new firmware hack brings the GH1 on par with the Canon's offerings in terms of price/performance/features. It's still not a 100% perfect total package, but it also has several great things that are missing in the Canons. None of them are perfect.
So, I'm the one that posted those comparison screengrabs between the 5D & Gh1(3). After doing a lot testing and comparison between the two, I decided to sell the 5D mark II and keep the GH13. For me, the choice came down to these factors:
1) I can use the GH1 for wide & deep DOF in situations where a 5DII would choke on colored moire, and still get creamy bokeh when I want shallow DOF.
2) I own a much wider selection of great glass to use with the GH13 because of how easy it is to adapt lenses. I'm covered from 7mm to 400mm.
3) Conversion to ProRes takes significantly less time with AVCHD vs Canon's h.264
4) I found that several of Canon's zoom lenses can't be counted on giving me an accurate t-stop in accordance with it's f-stop as compared to what I experience with m4/3 lenses & legacy prime glass. I think this is why the GH1 can "feel" more light sensitive when compared. I know this is a lens issue, and primes are probably much better to use to get a fast aperture, but it really itches my craw when I expect to get a certain brightness out of lens, and it doesn't deliver (I'm looking at you 24-105 f4 L).
5) GH13 feels sharper, and I personally like that look. When I tried to sharpen the 5DII to match, I got halos.
6) I find the overall shooting experience to be much more pleasant with the GH1, thanks to the swivel screen, EVF & lighter weight
Finally, most of the reasons that caused me to get a 5DII to use in lieu of the GH1 in the first place have been alleviated by the firmware hack: pulldown, mud & PAL shooting modes being the most important for me. For me, since the firmware hack, the only thing that the 5DII had over my GH1 was shallower DOF and about 2-3 stops ISO advantage. When it came down to it, I was sitting on a depreciating piece of gear that could be traded in for something as much or more useful to me.
I can still certainly see why someone would choose a 5D II over a GH1. Better ISO performance combined with a Vista Vision sized sensor is a huuuuuggee deal, but for me, not a dealbreaker. Granted, my 5D II has only been gone for a little over a day now, but I haven't missed it yet
Very very informative. My thing was 5D larger sensor or GH1's versatility. This sewed it up for me.
J Davis
Veteran
It's great is now we have so many options. What the 5D brings to the table is that you can shoot video full frame and that in itself allows us shooters the ability to get certain shots that no other camera can get. Especially in enclosed interior situations where you cannot move back.
The only area now where the GH13/GH1 suffer a little is that it can be tough shooting wide, especially if you are cropping 1080p down to 1:2.35 or 1:2.39. Luckily it's lack of a mirror makes up for this with lens choices.
The only area now where the GH13/GH1 suffer a little is that it can be tough shooting wide, especially if you are cropping 1080p down to 1:2.35 or 1:2.39. Luckily it's lack of a mirror makes up for this with lens choices.
I might be alone here, but stability is still a big issue for me with the GH13 in terms of write speed errors. I'm still able to invoke write speed errors with deep focus nature scenes, especially with the kit lens which I think we all know now is driving the camera harder than non-native glass. But I can do it on my 24mm Nikon, too - and I'm sure this would worsen with a Sigma 12-24 or what have you.
I'm confident the dust will settle with more testing and we'll be able to arrive at some settings (or, more likely, a set of a few different settings to match a given situation) that are solid. We'll need the corresponding SD cards as well that work best with the camera/setting combo. Bottom line, it's a lot of variables that still need to be checked, rechecked, hammered on by large numbers of people so we can reach a consensus. Right now I would be super nervous doing any kind of paid work on a GH13... not so much with the 5D, although that certainly has its own anxiety-inducing problems. It's just more of a known quantity since it's been out for much longer. With the GH13 things are still changing/evolving/improving practically every hour!
I'm confident the dust will settle with more testing and we'll be able to arrive at some settings (or, more likely, a set of a few different settings to match a given situation) that are solid. We'll need the corresponding SD cards as well that work best with the camera/setting combo. Bottom line, it's a lot of variables that still need to be checked, rechecked, hammered on by large numbers of people so we can reach a consensus. Right now I would be super nervous doing any kind of paid work on a GH13... not so much with the 5D, although that certainly has its own anxiety-inducing problems. It's just more of a known quantity since it's been out for much longer. With the GH13 things are still changing/evolving/improving practically every hour!
J Davis
Veteran
+1 agree, but this will slowly change I am sure as testing continues
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
LOL The life would be quite easier if we could keep the things up as simple as that ;-)
They will always produce different results, count on it.
Imagine if all painters would rather follow Caravaggio. Poor humankind, without Modigliani.
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It's great to have choices.
Indeed. Don't disagree with ya. Just won't be the MKii I own until the aliasing/moire gets fixed or I run across extra change. Til then, RED MX and GH13 will be it for me.
As you said, 50% glass. I'll take the option to PL mount without having to hack the camera to pieces.
=P Different strokes! Which is why we all need to just shoot and stop wondering which camera we need! We need the one available at our price point and level.
That's it.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
It is true.
Have you ever shot with the Iscorama?
Here's something to be worthy to take a look if not seen, yet:
http://vimeo.com/sotong/videos/page:2/sort:newest
J Davis
Veteran
I don't think this has been mentioned here yet, but one advantage that I like with the t2i/7d is that it can act as the best Directors Viewfinder ever because of its 1:1 field of view reference to super 35 film or s35 RED.
T2i/7d is like a Directors Viewfinder that can record – great for video story boards and communicating ideas with a DP. For this reason I will always have an aps-c vDSLR. Even after I've moved onto the ever ellusive 2/3 scarlet.
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T2i/7d is like a Directors Viewfinder that can record – great for video story boards and communicating ideas with a DP. For this reason I will always have an aps-c vDSLR. Even after I've moved onto the ever ellusive 2/3 scarlet.
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I had an Iscorama 50 before it got popular, and sold it off before I knew I could sucker people into paying more. Hahaha. It's a great piece of glass...
I am a bit spoiled and have connections to cinema anamorphic glass now, and if I need to shoot at the spur of the moment a set of Lomo Anamorphics await... I'll definitely be placing some Hawk's or cheaper Clairmonts on the GH-1.
Wonder how that'll look if we can get the 4x3 High Bitrate/Compression that was pitched the other day?
Again, not knocking the MKii. If we're weighing a more expensive camera with a cult phenom lens that costs over halfof what the camera body costs, is it not fair to put the GH1 + PL mount + PL glass in the pot?
Which is why saying one is better just makes no sense.
=] We must have options... so long as they have manual controls at least.
I can't remember the exact translation of what the GH1 shoots in Video mode, it was long ago recognized that it is maybe 3-4mm or so off of the RED's true frame.
They're all in the same "arena" at this point. The difference between APS-C and GH1's video mode is probably negligible and comes down to just wanting the extra few mm's versus shifting the camera a foot or two.
Neither are anywhere near the size of Full Frame, nor are the difference between GH1 and 7D/T2i as great as GH1/t2i/7D to 5D.
cowpunk52
Veteran
I believe it was figured out to be a 1.18x crop factor in 16:9 mode between the GH1 and Canon APS-C. If memory serves correct, Barry Green came up with that (but don't quote me).
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
I have a few sets of Lomos, Ekrans, etc. I felt in love for the Iscorama anyway. With the 5D Mark II, they are the perfect couple.
J Davis
Veteran
pasted from my handy text file on my desktop ...
Still Photography Film
Full Frame Still Film is 36mm x 24mm
Digital Full Frame DSLR (canon 5DM2)
36mm x 24mm
Movies Film
Three Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 12mm
Four Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 16mm
Three Perf Super 35mm is 24.89mm x 14mm
Four Perf Super 35mm is 24.89 x 18.66mm
7d and t2i
22.3mm x 14.9mm
RED s35
24.4mm x 13.7mm
REDMX s35
30mm x 15mm
.
Still Photography Film
Full Frame Still Film is 36mm x 24mm
Digital Full Frame DSLR (canon 5DM2)
36mm x 24mm
Movies Film
Three Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 12mm
Four Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 16mm
Three Perf Super 35mm is 24.89mm x 14mm
Four Perf Super 35mm is 24.89 x 18.66mm
7d and t2i
22.3mm x 14.9mm
RED s35
24.4mm x 13.7mm
REDMX s35
30mm x 15mm
.
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http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=211714
Hunter and I were saying this a while ago. It's come back around. Enjoy.
Hunter and I were saying this a while ago. It's come back around. Enjoy.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
The issue with the Canons @ wide end is they actually loose the competition to the GH1 winner as far as sharpness concerns. Yet more critical with the GH13 hack. But if we're discussing other variables as DOF, smoothness, glass choice and such, ISO, etc, we need to be able to tell a different story then.