Getting weird artifacts on youtube from 7Q footage....

F

freshTEA

Well-known member
Hi, I just wanted to know if anyone elseis having anything similiar issues.. in the movements the video just falls apart. play it in 1080p and you will see..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=190vDGnwrJU

I recorded this with the Odyssey 7Q, a really simple one take on a dance show. Ive tried both adobe media encoder and apple compressor,
My output settings for h.264 were: VBR, 2pass, target bitrate 75 Mbps
When that didn't work I tried prores and the same thing happens, the footage just falls apart..
I didn't receive this issue on earlier firmware 7Q... then again I don't know if 7Q is to blame..

It looks good when playing all the formats on my computer.

thankful for any advice
 
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Youtube doesn't have enough bitrate to handle your scene. Seeing as it is dark, and the FS700 can be noisy in the dark areas this is making it hard to compress the image.

I would suguest denoising your image in all 3 component channels, and possibly blurring it to get the noise down. You'll then want to add some static dithering to make sure the smoke doesn't band either.
 
I have something similar happening to a properly exposed daylight scene with zero dark spots, smoke or anything. Just plain old green grass, a camera on sticks and a couple sitting in the grass talking.

Rendering out the edit as highly compressed H.264 gives the same crappy compression and "on and off" effect. It looks horrible and ive not taken a full dive into the issue yet.
 
Youtube can handle dark way better than that. There are serious glitches happening in your vid.

I have had a similar issue as well with my first 7Q video upload and it was in a broad daylight shot. I filmed in 4K2HD. The shot was heavily color graded, but the original H.264 file I made looked fine. I tried tons of different H.264 files at different bit rates both on Youtube and Vimeo over a few days. The end result is in this one particular shot, I just could not get rid of it. But it was definitely not as consistent through the whole video or as bad as what you are experiencing. I have uploaded tons of live concerts on the web and Youtube can handle dark lit shots even if there is noise in them.

It's gotta be something with the file. So, I am not sure I have the answer for you but what I am seeing can definitely get better and I don't think it is a noise issue. On Youtube in particular, the highest mbps file I tried which was 50mbps looked way worse than my file that I ended up going with which was 20-30mbps. Maybe try lowering the bit rate? Try it on vimeo as well and see if the issue is occuring the same there. In my case, it was happening on both.

Don't settle for that being the final output though, best of luck!
 
Thanx guys, really appreciate it :) I have 30 something clips like this on youtube... :/ I will try the lower bitrate
 
Do you have a specific value set to the keyframing in your encoding settings (other than "auto")?

It looks like it may be keyframing every 5.5 seconds or so (so like 132 frames if it's 24fps).

Maybe try lowering that to 48 or so.
 
Lowering the bitrate will only destroy detail in a way you cannot control. Try to blur the cB and cR channels first before you start letting the encoder make the creative decisions for you.

If this is for a paid gig, try finding professional compressionists out there that can pre-process your footage and give you an online delivery master.
 
I would lower your keyframe amount as much as you can. It looks like it's key framing really far apart. That's where it looks good and then turns to mush and then suddenly looks nice again. Those are the "keyframes". That's some pretty bad compression going on, though. Not sure what's happening on YouTube's end. If your video was too high of bitrate, YouTube could be recompressing it.

Honestly, I've had dark videos compressed at 5-8mbps that don't look as terribly compressed as the one you posted.
 
I will test the key frame thing in Adobe PP encoder, as i get the same effect when exporting with H.264 for Android settings.
 
Youtube will always re-compress your video regardless of how it's encoded. Every video on YouTube is a second generation copy so it's important to deliver a transparent, pre-processed encode of your source media to be put through the YouTube black-box encoder.

I would never give YouTube a video of less than 20mbps knowing that it will be re-crunched again to around 4.5mbps.
 
This is one of 20+ videos I made a year ago in a dark lit club using a Panasonic AG-AC130 (small sensor runNgun cam nowhere comparable to FS700 low light ability) and a Canon T3i. I also was never able to point light directly at the Talent which made the situation darker. There is also fog half way in and the edges hold up pretty well! This video was exported from Premiere at a variable bit rate of 5-9mbps like all 20+ vids I made for the DJ's were.

I am showing this because it is an example that Youtube is handling the blacks, noise, and fog a lot better than the straight on glitches your video is showing and the file that was uploaded was very small. There is something happening in the actual file that Youtube is not liking but I feel pretty darn confident it is not because there is too much noise in your video seeing as when it comes in clear without the glitches, the noise level looks completely acceptable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb0SMWN-HSU&list=PLEdafLrhWMDDtA0bWES8RFR8tpunhkotR



Ash von Chamier
www.RoughCutProductions.com
 
Ashclever, your video has a lot of crushed blacks where the noise normally lives. in FreshTEA's video he let the video signal play out, so there is more noise to encode.

Also chroma noise is worse on the Sony cameras, and if you aren't crushing it, you'll need to do something with cB and cR channels to make it clean when it gets crushed to 4.5mbps by YouTube.
 
Hi again,
okey test two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kkUAEY12xM
this file is straight from the camera...

http://youtu.be/sk0yHI2m-Rc
This is when converted to h.264 HIGH bitrate

Its not even that dark to be honest and it breaks apart in dark side...
Am I being a turd for not understanding this? Something is wrong, even if the shot is on the darker side this should not happen, right? Im getting really frustrated with this.. This is not the first time I upload footage and it sure isn't the most low light footage either and I never received this with earlier firmware on the odyssey 7Q...
 
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freshTEA said:
Hi again,
okey test two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kkUAEY12xM
this file is straight from the camera...

http://youtu.be/sk0yHI2m-Rc
This is when converted to h.264 HIGH bitrate

Its not even that dark to be honest and it breaks apart in dark side...
Am I being a turd for not understanding this? Something is wrong, even if the shot is on the darker side this should not happen, right? Im getting really frustrated with this.. This is not the first time I upload footage and it sure isn't the most low light footage either and I never received this with earlier firmware on the odyssey 7Q...
Click to expand...

In your defense, YouTube isn't exactly the highest quality video player...
 
Very valid point about the Crushed blacks Demistate. FrestTEA, maybe try crushing your blacks?

Honestly though, the insane glitches your experiencing would make this camera combo obsolete if that is the best it could deliver for Youtube Uploads when shooting in still reasonably lit scenarios like this. I have only gotten to shoot 1 video production so far with my unit and while it has darker areas that have uploaded fine to Youtube, like Dimistate pointed out, I crushed my blacks so maybe that is why I have not had the issue? I really don't know but this is definitely a worrisome situation you are having after taking the upgrade path and this being the result.

Has Convergent Design ever offered recommended upload settings for maximum quality using the 7Q codecs? I would be interested to know myself if someone has a link?

The trails your macro blocking leaves behind is really odd.
 
Can you upload the ProRes file to it? I'll take a crack at pre-processing the footage and uploading it for you.

Smaller clips are the hardest since there isn't enough time to spread out the variable bitrate that the YouTube encoder employs.
 
Once again than guys for helping out :)
I could try to crush the blacks but that would be insane to be bound by crushed blacks in order to put it on youtube..
Convergent design said this:
"First note that typically you want to convert files before uploading them to YouTube, so that you have control of your compression settings, when uploading files straight to YouTube, it will determine it's own settings, as needed, to achieve a desired bit rate.
The Odyssey7Q does not adjust the black levels from your camera, but simply records the full range of data that is available.
To correct this, this would be a outputs setting in your NLE, to output between 0 and 255, instead of 16 and 255,
As for the best YouTube settings, we recommend asking on the forums, or post on your NLE forum for the best help on how to do this." Followed by that I should try Davinci resolve.

Ive only come across this issue when I used x264 instead of h.264 before (and I think it was pretty low bitrate I used that time)

Here is the file if anyone wants to try:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8s2piy2hl4iruoz/CLIP0000007_000.mov?dl=0
 
This is not a Convergent Design, Odyssey7Q, or FS700-Odyssey7Q combo issue. I and many others have uploaded 1000s of videos shot with this gear without suffering such issues.
 
I hear you Mitch but I can't figure out what it is since I haven't had the problem before. Ive tried:
*prores straight from the camera to youtube (which have worked before)
*H264 high bitrate (75Mbps)
*X264 same^^
*Encoded prores

with:
*Compressor
*Adobe media encoder
*Davinci Resolve

Im not saying it is the Odessey, I'm trying to figure out what the issue is since this happened just now that I did update to the newest firmware (not saying thats the issue)
 
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