Getting the right image ?

Re: Getting the right image ?

[quote author=andy_starbuck link=board=Events;num=1095676145;start=0#1 date=09/21/04 at 08:33:57]MrBeaker,

You have asked "The Mother" of all questions.  The DVX100a is a sophisticated and highly flexible tool that is capable of many "looks".  To a great extent, getting "the right" look depends on what "right" means to you at that time.

In order to learn to use the DVX100a you will need to learn (1) what all the settings are on your camcorder and what they do, (2) how these settings affect the underlying technology, and (3) what the resulting look is in your final video.

A good place to learn about the settings on the DVX100a is to read the manual that came with the camera. The information in the manual explains more about what the settings do, and not so much about how to use the camera.

To learn about the underlying technology, you can find a lot of information online.  Some websites dive deeply into one aspect of the technology.  A great site that gives a pretty complete overview of the technology of the DVX100a is at adamwilt.com at this URL: http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html

Learning about how different settings will produce different results requires some experimentation.  One of the best ways to learn about this by reading DVXuser.com posts and looking in the "Screen Grabs / Clips of DVX Footage" section to see what others have gotten the camera to do.  What you will find is that by studying these resources and experimenting, you will begin to educate your "video vision".  You'll learn to see differences in the video that you hadn't noticed before.

Now, all that is missing is a very basic primer to help you get decent images from the camera with a few simple settings.  I'll try to cut through the details and give you a simple recipe for using the DVX100a.
[/quote]

That was fantastic Andy. I did a wedding this past weekend and my footage was much better!
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

??? I tried to shoot some video today in an environment which as lighting that casts a yellowish/reddish color. No matter what I did I couldn't get "the red out". Is there anyway to correct this while doing the shoot? I sure makes my human subjects look "off color".
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

::) Sorry, I meant to say "It sure makes my human subjects loo "off color".
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

I don't have enough information about the lights in the environment in which you were shooting to be certain about my response. However, here is my best guess. If you set the white balance, and the colors are still not correct on your subjects, then I suspect you were dealing either with monochromatic (single color) lights or with lights that had poorly balanced color for video work.

Most lights provide a blend of different frequencies (colors) that enable normal color vision and video recording. But some lights have a very narrow frequency range. For example, sodium vapor street lamps produce an orange-yellow glow. Sodium vapor lights are often used in cities near a telescope observatory. The light from the street lamps bounces into the sky causing "light pollution" that interferes with the sensitivity of a telescope. But because the sodium vapor light has such a narrow frequency range, it can be filtered out of the telescope's view. So the single color of the light is intentional. If the environment was predominantly lit with monochromatic lights, (such as sodium vapor) then you wouldn't see much color. Everything would be either black or gray or some tint or shade of orange.

Another possibility is that the environment was lit with lights having multiple colors, but which were poorly balance for video. In other words, some colors were so much brighter than others, that it is impossible for the camera to get a proper exposure on all of the colors at the same time. For example, halogen work lights that are sold at hardware and home supply stores are very bright, but also poorly balanced for video. The red in them is much stronger than the other colors. To the eye, the colors will look good and the light will look bright. But to the camera, the brightness of the single strong red color will defeat the ability of the camera to properly detect other colors. The other colors will be too weak – to dim – to be picked up when the exposure is set for the bright colors of light. Under halogen work lights, people usually turn orange or red on video.

If the environment was lit with monochromatic lights, then there is little you can do either in camera settings or in color correction in post to improve the images. Basic color information is missing in the environment. And what is missing cannot be added or restored.

If the problem was poorly color-balanced lights, then again, there are no camera settings to fix the problem. The only chance of restoring natural color is by color correcting in post. And that depends on how poorly balanced the lights are. It is likely that some colors are so underexposed and some colors so overexposed that restoring the right balance will be extremely difficult. If you can shoot a few seconds of a gray reference card in this light, analyzing it in post might provide clues to aid in color correcting the video.

The best solution in this situation is to add photographic lights to the environment.

In some circumstances (such as wedding shoots), clients may favor ambience and mood over properly lighting the event to get a good video recording. If you can't get enough of the right kind of light, then you have to compromise on the quality of the results.

Andy
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Another possibility: dimmers. If incandescent lights are used with dimmers, as they are turned down they produce a lot of red light. Turning the lights up a bit might give a color correctable image.

Andy
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Excellent replies, andy! Admins, please make this a sticky thread!

"I take out my dvx, turn it on, and try to switch all the side buttons. Like the gain, iris, and white balance. I never seem to get the look I want. "

The question reminded me of seeing my wife channel surf last night... she would watch a channel for about 15 seconds and then lazily punch random buttons on the remote -- without looking at it -- until the channel changed. She was half asleep and bored to death, with a very serious look -- her actions looked extremely surreal. I laughed so hard I almost fell on the ground!

Anyway, the thing is she was doing this out of boredom and was not trying or expecting a certain result.

If she was expecting a useful result, I would have had to explain to her the "TV remote baseline", and "Channel number and button relationships" concepts :)

MrBeaker, thank you for asking this question, leading to andy writing his excellent tutorial which we all learned from.

Regards
-- Andre
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

You mean randomly punching buttons when bored and half asleep doesnt work??? ::)
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

aaandre,

I don’t know if you are comparing me to your wife ;D But my question was a question that everyone seemed to be wondering. It was just a matter of asking.

Once again Andy, thanks for the answers. ;D
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Andy, I'm interested in your comments about work lights. If they turn people an uncorrectable red or orange, then it would seem that their use for video would never have gotten beyond the "bright idea" stage. Yet we know that many shoestring productions have been lit with them. Are you saying that all these low-budget videomakers settled for red/orange people, or are some worklights more video-friendly than others?
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

..a simple white balance would set the color temp of the worklights (or any lights) to white... or any other color you want them to be.
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

iamloser,
That's exactly what I would have thought, but Andy's comments make the red/orange problem seem unfixable.If all it takes is a push of the wb button, it's really NOT a problem.
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

I thought from the sequence of the posts that the white balance had been correctly set, and the skin tones were still off. So I was trying to guess, given that little information, what might have been the cause.

I tried halogen lights one time and got poor results. But I didn't have sophisticated color correcting software at that time and I was not shooting with a DVX100. My experience could have been caused by the cheapo camera I was using.

If the white balance had been correctly set, and the skin tones were still reddish/orange, what do you think might have been the cause?
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Then I think your original conclusion -- too much red/orange for the camera to overcome -- would be correct. But that might also suggest overreliance on the worklights. Maybe, when softened and reduced with something in front, they can be used reliably to supplement natural light. I'm thinking of maybe constructing a large frame that holds white fabric (even an old bedsheet) and sits a couple of feet in front of the lights, diffusing them.
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Could you put the best parameters for the setup 25p (f5-f6)and interlaced (f1).

Thx

detail level
chroma level
chroma phase
coulour temp
master pedestal
skin tone detail
matrix
vertical detail frequency
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

I'm not sure what you mean by best parameters. Best parameters for what purpose or result?

If you are asking how to get the factory default settings back into the scene files, then there are instructions in the camera manual. In my copy on page 38 there is a side bar that reads "To return the scene file settings to the factory settings, select INITIAL in step 10, and then perform the same steps 11 to 13."

Andy
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

I love this board i've been reading it for about 3wks now, and i've never in my history of forum reading have I ever seen ppl help each other the way this community does it! :D Thanks for the advice andy

I get my dvx today hopefully ill be home when i get there, cant wait to play with it ;D
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

[quote author=pc3 link=board=Events;num=1095676145;start=30#33 date=09/29/04 at 12:08:16]Could you put the best parameters for the setup 25p (f5-f6)and interlaced (f1).

Thx

detail level
chroma level
chroma phase
coulour temp
master pedestal
skin tone detail
matrix
vertical detail frequency
[/quote]

Well, the only way I know is to play around with the settings until you feel confortable with them. But, if you intend to transfer to 35mm, then have a look at http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/dvx100settings.htm

All the best

Fidel.
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

and give this man a badge . . . respected or something . . . his explanations are comprehensive!
 
Re: Getting the right image ?

Hi can you help regarding GAIN & EXPOSURE...
I'm a newbie to the camera but have got my head round most of the basics. However I can't understand how Gain and exposure relate.

As generally advised I set the Gain to Low/0 and then find the correct exposure. But when the Gain is shifted up the Zebras change suggesting I am over exposing the image.
Can someone explain what is actually happening here?

Does the Gain only affect the LCD image? and if so why do the zebras change?
What is the correct Gain setting to use to find the proper exposure?
 
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