getting in for the least amount

Thanks i will have look at that site. But most people say the a mac with FCP will be the most stable and user friendly NLE solution. Moreover my present PC is outdated (P3 667 MHz) so I need something else anyway.

Luis Caffesse said:
If you want to get in as cheap as possible then stick with PC
(I don't want this to turn into a format flame war, I work on Mac myself but you coudl probably set up a PC for cheaper).

If you want to go with Mac, check out Mike Curtis's HD FAQ at www.hdforindies.com
He has a great list there detailing the Mac requirements for editing different formats.
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wigby said:
it's functionally the same as firestore but you're paying $2000 for firestore's 100gb compared to $300 for an off the shelf 500gb firewire/usb drive.
Click to expand...


It is NOT functionally the same as Firestore.
With a Firestore drive you can record directly from the firewire port on the HVX200, sidestepping the need for P2 cards and giving yourself 100GB capacity.

An off the shelf external firewire drive CAN ONLY be used to dump footage from the P2 cards. Therefore, although off teh shelf firewire drives are significantly cheaper than the Firestore drive, they are only usefull if you spend the money on P2 cards.

And again if you want to dump your P2 card footage directly to a hard drive without the need of a computer then you can only use Firewire drives, NOT USB drives.
The USB port on the HVX is used to hook the camera up to a computer, the camera is then viewed as an external drive by the OS allowing you to copy your footage over that way.


(CAPS were used just for the sake of clarity, not trying to come off like I'm yelling here)
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Well, you need to figure out if you want to work with P2 cards or with the Firestore, you defintely don't need both.

What equipment do you currently own/have access to? It's not worth buying new stuff if you can incorporate some of your existing gear into your new workflow.

Without knowing some more details on what your situation and your application is, I don't think anyone can tell you much.

What I CAN tell you is that if you are trying to get in for "the least amount" then you don't need a new Quad Power Mac, or 2 Dell 24" HD Displays.
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If your shooting a feature, you should record to BOTH P2 and firestore, or to a video assist setup on portable FCPHD or 5. That way you have built in redundancy and ability to view takes and help setup framing for reverse shots etc.

I agree with you on the point about incoporating with existing gear...especially tripod, firewire drives to transfer P2 ect ect.

And you dont NEED a quad mac. I know people who cut uncompressed HD on dual G4's.
 
esperman said:
If your shooting a feature, you should record to BOTH P2 and firestore, or to a video assist setup on portable FCPHD or 5. That way you have built in redundancy and ability to view takes and help setup framing for reverse shots etc.
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While that may be a great solution, I think it's overkill if he's looking the the cheapest way to go.

People shoot features everyday on 35mm without redundancy.
We shoot on Tape all the time without built in redundancy.

Backing up your data after the shoot is definitely a good idea, but I would disagree that it's necessary to shoot on a redundant system.
 
well true..if you want to be bottom dollar...then stay away from HD in any flavor LOL.

I've never been on a 35mm shoot without video assist. If you can afford film or HD..no reason not to.
Short form DV or DVCAM...shure.
Anything long form or real budget...no way. Redundant all the way.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
So a "shelf external firewire drive" works standalone right? Does it have iits own power supply so you can use it on the run?
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depends...there are some smaller external drives that will run off usb power..not sure about firewire drives......
 
esperman said:
I've never been on a 35mm shoot without video assist. If you can afford film or HD..no reason not to.
Short form DV or DVCAM...shure.
Anything long form or real budget...no way. Redundant all the way.
Click to expand...

Video assist is not the same thing as redundancy.
Video assist is used to be able to see your 35mm camera image on an external monitor.
There is no 'redundancy' built into a 35mm camera shoot.

Shooting HD it's easy enough to run the signal out to a monitor.
But that is not the same thing as saying that you need redundancy in your recording setup.
 
hvx200 - video assist running through portable FCP for scopes and recording takes in DVCPRO HD is redundant.

35mm film- video assist running through portable FCP for viewing camera image as well as recording so you can offline ASAP is a type of redundancy. Sure, if the lab destroys your neg..your still screwed.

But we're not talking 35mm here, are we?

If your shooting a feature on HVX200, then either go BOTH P2 and firestor, or video assist. To not be redundant would be foolish.
 
esperman said:
hvx200 - video assist running through portable FCP for scopes and recording takes in DVCPRO HD is redundant.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is redundant...once you add 'recording takes.'
My point was only that the term "video assist" itself does not imply redundancy.
"Video Assist" refers only to the system which allows you to view your image on an external monitor, seperate from the camera. It does not imply recording of that image.

35mm film- video assist running through portable FCP for viewing camera image as well as recording so you can offline ASAP is a type of redundancy. Sure, if the lab destroys your neg..your still screwed.
Click to expand...

That's not redundancy. Redundancy would mean two versions of equal quality being recorded simultaneously. Video Assist is used only as a reference, and is never even close to the quality of your actual footage.

But we're not talking 35mm here, are we?
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No, we're talking HD. But my point in bringing up 35mm was that if Peter Jackson can shoot Lord of the Rings without a redundant recording system, then it probably is safe for me as well.

If your shooting a feature on HVX200, then either go BOTH P2 and firestor, or video assist. To not be redundant would be foolish.
Click to expand...

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I suppose I'm foolish, but I don't see it as necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that it would be nice...it would be a luxury.
But necessary? Obviously not.
The film industry has thrived for a century without redundant on set recording, I don't see any reason to add it to my workflow now.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
That's not redundancy. Redundancy would mean two versions of equal quality being recorded simultaneously. Video Assist is used only as a reference, and is never even close to the quality of your actual footage.

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I suppose I'm foolish, but I don't see it as necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that it would be nice...it would be a luxury.
But necessary? Obviously not.
Click to expand...

Well sort of. I've cut video assist footage...got shot approvals..and printed small amounts of 35mm for final cut. Edit was done before film was processed. True redundancy...no. But the final edit was! LOL

In the IT world...I think redundancy is a must. I don't mean to imply your foolish....
But if you buy this camera, it WILL change your workflow, unless your sticking to DV.
 
It's worse than I thought!! I might have to wait a few years for the price to come down and all the bugs to be worked out. Maybe the DVX100b, but I really wanted 16:9. Maybe a GL3 16:9? Probably not either.

It's looking more and more like new Nikon stuff!!

Thanks for all the input.
 
How about this price list:

HVX200 = $5500
One 4GB P2 card = ~$700
One 250GB Firewire HDD = $180
One Dual-Core 2GHz PowerMac G5 = $2000
2GB RAM from Crucial.com = $280
One Dell 24" LCD monitor = $850, with coupons
One LaCie Biggest S2S 1.25Terabyte HDD = $2000
Final Cut Studio = $1300

TOTAL (so far) = $12,810

You'll probably want to add accessories like:

Carrying case
Light kit
Boom Mic & pole
XLR cables
UV & polarizing filters
Remote zoom/focus controller
Tripod & fluid head

This seems like it should cover anything you might need. You can, of course, spend much, much more... But it'd probably be overkill.
 
Don't let this stop you from shooting 16X9!!
You can get an anamorphic adapter for the DVX, or get an XL2 and interchange lenses.

Also, you can always rent the camera and just worry about upgrading your editor.

I ALWAYS rent cameras. But I'm going to buy the hvx because what you get for the $$$ can't be beat.
 
. . . not trying to hijack the thread here but I had hoped Serious Magic would have weighed in on the HVX by now. Might have had some impact on the question at hand. Anybody hear anything on this yet, Barry?
 
I understand that the HVX200 in europe will be only available with 2 8 Gb p2 cards !! Is one 24" monitor enough really enough for FCP????
I don't see anything on your list regarding archiving of footage or should the 1.25 terab HDD do that job? How do you deliver finished footage to the customer????
What are the requirements for the video card ???

jrv3034 said:
How about this price list:

HVX200 = $5500
One 4GB P2 card = ~$700
One 250 Firewire HDD = $180
One Dual-Core 2GHz PowerMac G5 = $2000
2GB RAM from Crucial.com = $280
One Dell 24" LCD monitor = $850, with coupons
One LaCie Biggest S2S 1.25Terabyte HDD = $2000
Final Cut Studio = $1300

TOTAL (so far) = $12,810

You'll probably want to add accessories like:

Carrying case
Light kit
Boom Mic & pole
XLR cables
UV & polarizing filters
Remote zoom/focus controller
Tripod & fluid head

This seems like it should cover anything you might need. You can, of course, spend much, much more... But it'd probably be overkill.
Click to expand...
 
What industry are you working in? What sort of videos are you making?
it's nearly impossible for anyone to give you good clear advice on what you need if we don't know what the content, target market and distribution method are.

What sort of profit margin are you working at? Are you sure it's in your best interest to buy instead of rent?

Some details on what you exactly expect to do with this gear would make it much easier to hopefully get some decent advice on what gear you actually need.
 
What Luis said... I made that list assuming you would be making independent narrative films. If you're doing event videography, it's a whole other ball game.
 
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