Getting a good gunshot sound effect

T

ToTheBack

Active member
Currently, I'm editing a short movie I shot on the Red and at the end of the movie, there's a big indoor gunfight that occurs and I really want it to pop. It's with a variety of different guns but with the set up I have (Final Cut Studio 2), with Soundtrack Pro and what-have-you, I'm wanting to do something a bit more substantial with the sounds of the guns and the editing of them. I don't wanna use the stock gun sounds in the programs I have as they sound dated and common, and wanna use something with a bit more 'gravity.' Like when watching The Departed or Heat, they don't sound like every other gunshot, it has weight to it. As such, I know I'd probably have to create the sounds but wanted to get some guidance to it as I don't foley as much on previous projects
 
Just find a sample of a larger caliber gun. Like a rifle. Also you need a few different samples or your gun fights sound like video games.
 
Are you looking to record new effects (it's not Foley unless you're recording in sync to picture, by the way) or tweak something existing?
 
You could slow down existing shots to give them more beef, and blend them with the same shots at normal speed. You could record one tap of a mic (using your finger) to get a nice "thud" then layer that with a shot sound. That could be the sound when a bullet hits flesh, then a different sound when a bullet misses.
 
Recording guns is hard to do well. Most of the "Guns" you hear in movies are A) layered and B) much bigger than real life. If you want more beef try layering a cannon or howitzer with the main gunshot, probably at a low level. Also put in things for the bullets to hit. If they aren't hitting people they are hitting something.
 
I agree with everything Noiz2 had suggested.

Most or all movie soundtracks you hear in regards to FX are layered in multiple ways. Even using just one gunshot sample from your library could feel realistic depending on what "exists" around the gunshot, eg. bullet-bys, target impact. All the elements add up to make up another element for the sequence.

One possible way to make it feel 'beefier' is to use a specific sound FX that has very good low-end fundamentals layered together with another FX that has the sizzle of the sound you're looking for. Such in a way that you filter both or more sound elements to give them space to make it sound thicker, heavier, cracky, and punchy.

Similar to cooking a warm-hearty meal, you need your ingredients. Not one, but many.
 
Just buy Clark Johnson's 2003 S.W.A.T DVD and see the extras. There's a huge section on it on how to record guns and layer them in post :)
 
Noiz2 said:
Recording guns is hard to do well. Most of the "Guns" you hear in movies are A) layered and B) much bigger than real life. If you want more beef try layering a cannon or howitzer with the main gunshot, probably at a low level. Also put in things for the bullets to hit. If they aren't hitting people they are hitting something.
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Wouldn't you have to 'shorten' the blast... something like a 155mm has an awful lot of 'low frequency' component, that sort of 'lasts'. A 50 Cal machine gun, tends to be noisy, and much higher frequency, but shorter.

I hear these things from about 5-6 miles away, so, there's lots of distance filtering, etc. But the Howitzers tend to be 'long', and the 50 Cals, short, sharper, but still sounds like a pack of firecrackers.

Here's an example of a 50 Cal up close... the 'echos' slightly delayed from the main firing, is what I typically hear...

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I AGREE


Here's a howitzer in action...

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Sometimes in pre produced recorded sound effects, the initial blast is panned left with the ambience and reverb panned right. I figured it out on an edit recently where the shots were needed to be "indoor" but the sound was echoey and "outdoor" sounding, chose left only in vegas and added a little EQ and bang! much better!
 
Well those are truly awful recordings so it's hard to say much from them except that using a camcorder with built in mics out doors with no wind protection is not a great choice for sound.
But the answer to your question is "editing". The base sound of Arni's grenade launcher thing in Terminator 2 was a howitzer.
So layering and editing, I kind of figured the editing part was a given. You can also, depending on your original sound, use a sub harmonic synthesizer to add some beef.
When you say "typically hear", where are you typically hearing this?
If your talking in "real life" then it doesn't really apply to the topic. If your talking about films I would suggest that you probably don't even realize what your actually hearing most of the time. That's not a cut, I probably can't pick apart many sounds in films. Robo Cop had almost two hundred tracks devoted to weapons alone. There was a fad some years back where just about every "big" weapon had animal sounds layered in. The point is that if you think your hearing slap-back of a howitzer at some distance (in a film) it's just as likely that the sound has nothing to do with a Howitzer as it is that it is an edited, layered, tweeked version of the real thing.
It's a safe bet in any Hollywood film that the sound you connect to a device has nothing to do with the real device. Cars are often the correct sound goosed but otherwise I can't think of anything that is usually the "real" sound.
I was going to say animals but that often isn't the case. My old 70lb Springer Spaniel was the sound of an small terrier (Dial soap), a 1,200 lb cow (Cal. Cheese), a St. Bernard (T-Mobile) and a dinosaur (FedEx). Animals are often in the same category (big cats for big cats) but a lot of times it's not actually THE correct animal.


j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
Wouldn't you have to 'shorten' the blast... something like a 155mm has an awful lot of 'low frequency' component, that sort of 'lasts'. A 50 Cal machine gun, tends to be noisy, and much higher frequency, but shorter.

I hear these things from about 5-6 miles away, so, there's lots of distance filtering, etc. But the Howitzers tend to be 'long', and the 50 Cals, short, sharper, but still sounds like a pack of firecrackers.

Here's an example of a 50 Cal up close... the 'echos' slightly delayed from the main firing, is what I typically hear...

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I AGREE


Here's a howitzer in action...

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I AGREE
Click to expand...
 
Noiz2 said:
Well those are truly awful recordings so it's hard to say much from them except that using a camcorder with built in mics out doors with no wind protection is not a great choice for sound.
But the answer to your question is "editing". The base sound of Arni's grenade launcher thing in Terminator 2 was a howitzer.
So layering and editing, I kind of figured the editing part was a given. You can also, depending on your original sound, use a sub harmonic synthesizer to add some beef.
When you say "typically hear", where are you typically hearing this?
Click to expand...


I'll have to listen to "Terminator 2"(1991) more closely to 'hear' what has been done to the Howitzer.

There are two questions in my mind on these sorts of topics... what was the 'real' sound, for example, what does a 'real' Howitzer sound like, and what has been done in the movies to enhance the sound.

Perhaps an artillery battery is not where most people hang out... and so, I found those clips on youtube, to sort of set what a 'real' Howitzer may sound like. Sure, the little camera that who ever shot that, wasn't up to give the full ground shaking, ear shattering 'reality'.

Same with the 50 Cal example. Not so much ground shaking as ear splitting...

As for 'actual' hearing these things... yes, while walking the dog in the evenings, the 155's and the 50 Cals can be heard in the distance...

And like the visuals there is the 'real' and the 'movie effect to elicit an emotional response from the viewer'.

----------------------------

Ok, you mentioned sub harmonic synthesis to boost low frequencies, which I interpret from 'add beef'.

But the original poster was asking about 'small arms', and so would the same thing be done for that application, since the burst is much shorter?
 
When out shooting with my brother-in-law my ears are ringing within minutes if I don't wear ear protection. When I'm shooting or standing close I can feel the concussion of the weapon. On the news you often hear the eyewitnesses comments that the shots sounded "like a bunch of firecrackers." This is true even when 20 feet away from the firing line; lots of mids and hi end but the concussion is felt rather than heard. In audio post we add lots of low end to recreate the effect.

Films are all about illusions. The sounds we create quite often have nothing to do with reality; we manipulate sounds to elicit an emotional response.


When you need a pistol use a rifle
When you need a rifle use a shotgun
When you need a shotgun use a howitzer
When you need a howitzer use a nuclear explosion
When you need a nuclear explosion drive down the highway at 90mph and stick the mic out the window
 
unclebob6958 said:
When you need a howitzer use a nuclear explosion
When you need a nuclear explosion drive down the highway at 90mph and stick the mic out the window
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Now what is really ironic is that the "sound" of a nuclear explosion that is burned into everyones brains comes from the original news reel of the Bikini (I believe) tests and when they got the recordings it was just soft and BIG low end and didn't sound like an explosion so they created a sound for the blast. I can't remember all the parts but one was a waterfall in Africa (Victoria falls?) that was used for the low end roar.

J1, Not many folks get to hear artillery while walking their dogs ;~)
The camcorder along with being thin and blown out also has a ton of wind and handling noise on it, that was what I was referring to.
Chadfish (and maybe the OP) were using "beef" and I made the same assumption you did because that is what is usually meant by the term. So yes bigger, thicker, more low-end, more punch. Or to quote Pete Townsend "Meaty, Beaty, Big and Bouncy".

On T2 they spent a lot of money recording the "real gun". But in the end it just didn't sound like they wanted. The problem with gun recordings is that anything close is WAY too dynamic. If you don't clip your recording is going to look like a digital glitch. If you limit the hell out of it you might get something useful. Generally you record at a bit of a distance or if your good and have the equipment you record a stack of tracks at different distances.

But as Bob pointed out your going for the feeling not the reality. Or maybe better the characters reality not subjective reality. How does the character that the audience is connecting with hear it (how does the audience want to hear it).
So in a really thoughtful design the same gun might sound many different ways depending on the mood and who we (the audience) "are" at the time. If your the victim and the bad guy is shooting at you it probably sounds huge, but if your the bad guy shooting calmly at your prey it probably doesn't sound that big. You also need to change it up and play with the volume if you have a lot of shots or you will just wear out the audience. You can surprise them with a really big shot, but then you have to back off or it just gets boring. Unless of course that IS your point and you want it to piss off the audience.
 
Noiz2 said:
J1, Not many folks get to hear artillery while walking their dogs ;~)
Click to expand...

Fringe benefit of living near an active training base... get to hear helicopter wash, and on rare occasions a 2000 lb bomb...

The camcorder along with being thin and blown out also has a ton of wind and handling noise on it, that was what I was referring to.
Click to expand...

For a short I made a year ago, I ripped off a newscast taken from 'somewhere in Iraq'. It had the same thin quality, worsened by compression... but trying to think about how to 'create' that from scratch was daunting...

So, about the only thing I did was to fake 'stereo' and panned between left and right, especially when a jet's over flight to at least attempt to give the sound a '3-d'ness.

It's going to be presented at a local film fest, attended by some number of Marines or former Marines, so I'll see if there's anyone who really objects to the 'unrealness'...

Since this was a nobudget affair, the screen is black during the fire fight, and all one hears is the sound.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
For a short I made a year ago, I ripped off a newscast taken from 'somewhere in Iraq'. It had the same thin quality, worsened by compression... but trying to think about how to 'create' that from scratch was daunting...
Click to expand...

Daunting creating the scene or making it sound like a news cast? The first is just composition and yes it could be a lot of work. The second you can probably fake with some EQ and white noise but I would use SpeakerPhone.
 
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