General HD questions...

B

benandaim

Well-known member
Hi Guys,

Just got my first card and it's my first night with the new workflow. I just have a couple of questions.

Firstly i edit with Avid Liquid (PC of course) which now supports the HVX in 1080p. So is it normal that i can only get my mxf's into my pc when my HVX is connected via USB coz i cannot get anything across using firewire?

Secondly the only timeline that i can drop video onto without re-rendering is the 1440 x 1080 16:9 non square...is that normal coz there's no option for 1920 x 1080 non square (i think this is what the HVX captures natively correct me if i'm wrong) it's just got 1920 x 1080 square?

Thirdly what the hell do i render out as? i'm used to plain old AVI for SD. Is it uncompressed coz that's huge (7.5gb or something from a 937mb MXF) I just can't seem to find the right codec.

I'm used to dropping my AVI into sorenson then compressing into whatever from there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Ben :beer:
 
Hi Ben

On a PC the workflow with the HVX is USB not Firewire. Firewire ain't faster anyway.

Timeline: Make your own! You can premake timeline settings like 1440 by 1080 @ 50 Mb/s GOP in the Liquid settings. It's a good fuse and render codec and a good way to get HD out of your system for further use. I use it a lot in HD. Especially because I often mix HVX200 data with XDCAM HD data.

You can't go uncompressed HD in Liquid unless you are working with a very fast Raid system (8 drives up). But with the above mentioned method you won't see much of a difference. It works very well. (for me anyway)

I hope though that avid will implement DVCPRO HD as a render codec in an upcoming version of liquid, as they did with DVCPRO 25 and DVCPRO 50 already. Or maybe something like DNxHD.

For further info's on the liquid workflow look here: liquid forum

Enjoy

Peter
 
Thanks.

What i meant by uncompressed was in the avi export setting you can select a codec and one of which is uncompressed if that makes sense... Just one more thing when i choose my export setting what is it? FUSE, AVI ???
 
What am i missing?

With SD i exported an AVI from liquid. Then i would put that into AE7 and composite... Then import that AVI from AE into sorenson and make an MPEG2.

Can you do this in DVCPRO HD with liquid? or am i missing something
 
Actually USB is slower in data transfer than USB 2.0

FireWire, uses a "Peer-to-Peer" architecture in which the peripherals are intelligent and can negotiate bus conflicts to determine which device can best control a data transfer


Hi-Speed USB 2.0 uses a "Master-Slave" architecture in which the computer handles all arbitration functions and dictates data flow to, from and between the attached peripherals (adding additional system overhead and resulting in slower data flow control)

Some tests:

Read Test:

5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 33% faster than USB 2.0
160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 70% faster than USB 2.0

Write Test:

5000 files (300 MB total) FireWire was 16% faster than USB 2.0
160 files (650MB total) FireWire was 48% faster than USB 2.0

However, USB2 seems to be a better approach for transferring footage on a PC.
 
On the HVX200, when using PC mode, USB operation is guaranteed to work with Windows. Firewire mode is not guaranteed to work.

When using MacOS, firewire mode is guaranteed to work. USB mode is not guaranteed to work.

It's not necessarily about speed or "better", it's about the integration with the operating system and knowing that the functionality will actually work. Panasonic has certified and guaranteed USB mode to work with Windows, and 1394 mode to work with MacOS, but they have not guaranteed USB mode to work with MacOS.

You may or may not have success, to varying degrees, using the "wrong" mode with your particular OS. But you're guaranteed to have success if you use the "right" mode with your OS.
 
Good Morning Ben

Switzerland is on the other end of the world :-)

I love thread-crashers, don't you?

O.K. Back to work.

When you Fuse a sequence (or a part of it) the fuse codec will always be the one that you selected in your timeline settings. You can't change that while fusing. You can change the timeline settings but the liquid will start to re-render.
The good thing in liquid is that it actually uses DVCPRO HD on the timeline, unless you do a transition or a title-graphic or something like that. Then it renders using the ... yes timeline settings.

Now if you just make hardcuts with DVCPRO HD, liquid will not touch those files. If you export your timeline to avi or mpeg or quicktime or whatever, liquid directly encodes the your native(!) footage into the codec of choice. That will give you very high quality files to work with.

There is an x-send option that will allow you to x-send your files or sequences directly to after effects. Haven't tried it myself and there may be issues with different version of AE but that could also work. Give it a shot.

btw strange avatar ben, very strange.

g'day mate

Peter
 
ive had 100% success with USB Device mode on 6 macs now (just got a new Mac Pro), but with the Duel Adapters going strong, no longer need to connect the HVX to dump.
 
he he...my avatar, it's only a mutant serial killer from the hills have eyes...what's weird about that...lol. Thanks for the help. Hey where do i find Xsend?
 
Why the hell does avid liquid think all my footage is interlaced when it's progessive and when i try to use the "SEEMLESS" DVCPRO 50 workflow i can't render dvcpro50 codec unless i leave it interlaced in the timeline options...WTF!!!
 
Stop using this ugly words :-)

X-send can be found in the manual. Honestly I don't now because first I use the classic interface and second in german. Therefore: Manual or F1.

Are you working in SD. There is no such thing as SD progressive. SD is always interlaced. Since the beginning of Television.

For further infos I think it's time now for you to get some help on the liquid forum @ the avid side.

Peter
 
Ben, in the SD world even progressive footage always got (and still gets) packed into an interlaced stream. Don´t worry about it. You won´t see it as interlaced, it is only the way the codec has to be to work in the DV-Standard.
 
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