joe12south
Veteran
If anyone has any questions or 1st-hand requests concerning the P4K, let me know. I'm starting to test today.
GH5 Game Over, Panasonic
- Thread starter Jim Simon
- Start date
Sound please. How do the built-in mics compare to something like the Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro (or X) for nat sound?
fboonzaier
Well-known member
I'm very interested in usability....I suspect that after shooting with the GH cameras (menus can be a nightmare till you're set up) this camera being a dedicated cinema camera will, by comparison, be a pleasure to shoot with....your impressions of that will be appreciated.
joe12south
Veteran
Surprisingly, if the VideoMic Pro is mounted on camera, they sound *very* similar.
Not surprisingly, the P4K's onboard mics are noticeably better than the GH5's.
Personally, I wouldn't use any of the above for anything other than ambient sound and scratch tracks, but that has more to do with distance to subject than quality of the mics themselves.
joe12south
Veteran
So far, I would consider usability a mixed bag, but with the P4K being an overall win for my kind of shooting:
- The P4K menu system is a slam dunk win. Not even close. Not only is the UI a gajillion times better, but there are about 90% less fringe-case choices to wade through. Using the GH5 side by side feels like traveling backwards in time.
- I have mixed feelings about the buttons:
-- GOOD: ON/OFF switch is great. Record button is good. Function buttons are good. General placement of everything, and the lack of extraneous photo cruft is good. In less than a day of handling, I can confidently hit every button without looking. (Being able to press one button and be in HFR, or 2 taps from change it, is so nice!)
-- BAD: The still photo and auto-exposure buttons are worthless to me. The auto-exposure button is placed such that I'm afraid to accidentally press it. The tactile response (feel) of the buttons other than REC and FUNCTION is mushy.
- Dedicated 12v power input and charging in-camera via either DC or USB are clear wins for the P4K. Obviously, the GH5 has a massive advantage on runtime with internal batteries. (The P4K sucks these dry at an alarming rate if you are used to a GH!!!)
- The 5" screen looks VERY nice and is much better in use as a touchscreen than the GH5. I feel like I can actually use it for manual focusing in 4K, something I could never do reliably with the GH5 screen. Obviously, if you need it to articulate, you're screwed.
- Ruggedness: The GH5 wins here, hands down. The P4K feels cheap. If you've ever handled the EVA1, then you know what the P4K feels like. I eventually ditched my cage on the GH5, but I can't see myself taking the P4K into the wild without one.
- Grip: I prefer the girth and texture of the P4K grip, but they are both good.
fboonzaier
Well-known member
Thanks!...the plasticky feel would not bother me that much....bought the first Shogun and the next day ordered a cage...how is the screen in daylight?...is it good or usable for focussing?...I'm unhurried, but will probably get either the Pocket or the XT-3 eventually....I'm sure many members considering this cam will appreciate this feedback from you, especially with your upcoming shoot....no better way to battle test a tool!....and ditto the GH5 screen, though nice, is no focus tool IMO....I even find the peaking vague....
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I’m personally waiting to see how users deck these things out to make them practical for a wide range of productions. Specifically how to add SSD and lightweight power options to shoot more than 30 minutes a go without turning the camera into a giant cumbersome turd.
I don’t want the only option to be a massive V-Mount battery attached to rails either. There needs to be some kind of options that keep the camera compact yet robust and error proof. A clear must is a locking mechanism for the usb3 cable.
Part of why I love the GH cameras is they always balanced quality with reliability. Sure it isn’t raw but each generation provided quality one couldn’t find on any other DSLR at the time. One thing they always did do however was work perfectly out of the box and rise up to just about any challenge. Raw is only good if I can actually get the shot in the first place. If the camera holds me back in any way then yes I would pay a premium for a GH5S.
I guess that’s where my reluctance lies. If this camera had at least a 90 minute battery and the option of a 150mbps h.264 format similar to the GH5 I would be sold. Sometimes I need to use a camera as is but need to record for as long as possible. If users come up with creative and solid solutions then the p4k will be an option for me in the future.
Any input on this?
joe12south
Veteran
The last two days have been grey and rainy in Nashville, so I haven't been able to test in bright sunlight. I can say that i50% brightness is comparable to the GH5 screen at full brightness. I'm sure someone will make a hood for it.
I wish it were possible to change the focus peaking color from red to something else, but given that you can pair it with false color, limiting this was probably intentional.
npm
Well-known member
This is the best battery solution I've seen so far, lasts 4 hours: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1416942-REG/core_swx_pbe_bmpc4_powerbase_edge_small_form.html
joe12south
Veteran
There are already multiple options for mounting an SSD without a cage. This hack is quite popular: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...twistgrip_twistgrip_tripod_adapter_clamp.html but there are several other purpose-built solutions from the usual suspects that utilize the top 1/4" mount (where a hot shoe typically sits.)
The bad news is that right now, there are no purpose-built external power options. The good news is, because of the locking 12V input, you can be sure that there will be plenty of them coming soon. I will be SHOCKED if someone(s) doesn't make a form fitting bottom piece to house BOTH an SSD and batteries. (Kind of like a battery grip without the grip.) In the meantime, I'll be powering in multiple ways:
1. Good old AC when on set on tripod.
2. With the gimbal's own battery when on gimbal.
3. With rail mounted mini v-mount when on shoulder.
When we can fit almost 200 minutes of 4K ProRes LT on a 500GB Samsung T5 ($100 US) and spinning desktop HD prices are even cheaper, I have a hard time caring too much about h.264 or h.265, except as a delivery format. I know for some it is an issue, and if that *truly* is the case, this is NOT the camera for you.
How is the 3.5mm input? I've read some reports it's not quite up to scratch. My plan was to use the RodeLink Filmmaker Kit via the 3.5mm jack as the primary input, with rented AVX units via miniXLR when I needed to mic up a second person.
joe12south
Veteran
I tested the VideoMic Pro via the 3.5mm jack. (I have a mini-xlr adapter on order, so I can't yet test my NTG-2 or my lavs.) It is at least as clean as the GH5. I forgot to bring in my GH5 today, but I will tomorrow and I will grab samples from both so that you can compare yourself.
ProAV did a pretty good comparison of how the different audio inputs sound in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1FAHFQlmbQ
joe12south
Veteran
For anyone that wants to pixel peep, here's a full resolution PNG of a chart shot under pretty bad conditions: http://www.humcrush.com/grabs/rokinon_85mm_f4.png
LENS: Rokinon Cine 85mm @ f/4
CAMERA: 4K, uncompressed RAW, ISO 3200 (over-exposed 2 stops)
LIGHTS: Shitty office fluorescents
The Rokinon is not an especially sharp lens, but I think it is interesting to see how the P4K handles noise and sharpening (i.e. it doesn't.) Notice how the noise is fairly equal across channels. Notice the lack of artificial ringing on the focus chart. Notice how even under bad lighting – horrible CRI, wrong white balance, over-exposed 2 stops – the color chart recovers fairly well.
LENS: Rokinon Cine 85mm @ f/4
CAMERA: 4K, uncompressed RAW, ISO 3200 (over-exposed 2 stops)
LIGHTS: Shitty office fluorescents
The Rokinon is not an especially sharp lens, but I think it is interesting to see how the P4K handles noise and sharpening (i.e. it doesn't.) Notice how the noise is fairly equal across channels. Notice the lack of artificial ringing on the focus chart. Notice how even under bad lighting – horrible CRI, wrong white balance, over-exposed 2 stops – the color chart recovers fairly well.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
ProRes LT is about the last format I would ever consider using and believe a good h.264 format would ultimately be better. Especially at higher data rates like the 150mbps or 400mbps. It’s really hard for a lower datarate all-I format to compete with the 150mbps on the GH5. Especially one as crude and inefficient as ProRes.
My Powerbase arrived today. Alas no Pocket 4k yet to try it on so it's just acting as the world's most expensive powerbank and charging my phone.
It's an elegant solution to a real problem with the camera. I'm keen to see someone create a more sculptured base with batteries and inbuild SSD caddy.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Does that have a threaded hole on the bottom to mount to a tripod? Is the threaded hole lined up on both sides so the camera is still mounted in the correct position for rails?
They've done a halfway decent job of ensuring it works as the sweet, sweet meat in a Pocket 4k / Tripod sandwich.
It's weird the camera side screws are side to side aligned, rather than front to back. I haven't seen the Pocket 4k in person - does that mean there's just one screw to hold it in place? I can see it rotating on the base plate.
The tripod side hole is left aligned. I can live with that as I don't use rails or cages but might cause problems for some.
The battery LCD is pretty great, reporting a fairly accurate estimation of life and also time to charge when plugged in. There's regular V-lock contacts so it can also be used on a light or other camera as well as 2x USB ports if you really want to drain it fast.
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NorBro
Major Contributor
Yes, it has a threaded hole at the bottom.
Switronix (now CoreSWX) has provided power for Blackmagic (and other cameras) for 3-4 years.
No one else as far as I know has made a camera plate/battery like this...even if it requires adjusting.
I am biased as I live 5 minutes away from their HQ, but for what it's worth, they are a very good company...seriously so so worth it.
(The "older" version of their battery powered my BMCC, BMPCC, BMPC, G85, a7RII, a6300, a6500 for many hours.)