GH5 Game Over, Panasonic

filmguy123 said:
I watched that before you posted and when I saw the end tag shot on Lumix 12-35 I just said, aww crap.

I coulda swore it was some beautiful high end zeiss or vintage leica. Nope. The freaking lumix 12-35. Just shows how much the aritifical processing wrecks those lenses and it's beyond me why Panasonic doesn't just have a quasi RAW mode that shuts off their NR, sharpening, etc. to get us closer to this. Just stunning footage.
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Amen, brother. If Panasonic would simply allow me to record as un-adulterated an image as possible - even with the current codec - I don't think I'd be buying the P4k. Sure, I'd prefer to have a professional codec, but I'd probably trade it for IBIS and hybrid capabilities.
 
If the 12-35 looks that good, imagine what Canon L glass on a Speedbooster will resolve. Can't wait!
 
Contax zeiss 21mm f2.8, 35mm f1.4 and the 85 f1.4 speed boosted

QUOTE=filmguy123;1986769348]Imagine voigtlanders... zeiss Milvus...
Sigma 18-35
Or my (next) dream set: Leica Rs[/QUOTE]
 
filmguy123 said:
Existing Speedbooster .71 that I use on GH5 (newest gen 5 I believe, positive lock) will work on BMPCC 4K without issue?
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While it will work it may be less than ideal as BlackMagic’s sensor stack is 2.4mm, while the GH cameras’ are 4mm, or more, so imagine Metabones may release a dedicated version.

”Standard Micro Four Thirds cameras have a total of approximately 4mm thickness of filter glass near the sensor, and the Speed Booster ULTRA m43 is designed to work optimally with this thickness of glass. The Blackmagic Cinema Camera and Pocket Cinema Camera have substantially thinner total filter glass thickness, which may cause noticeable aberrations when the Speed Booster ULTRA m43 is used on Blackmagic cameras at large apertures. For best results on Blackmagic cameras it is recommended that the appropriate Blackmagic-specific Speed Boosters be used.”

http://www.metabones.com/article/of/Speed_Booster_ULTRA_0.71x

More info...

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/the-glass-in-the-path-sensor-stacks-and-adapted-lenses/

https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/sensor-stack-thickness-when-does-it-matter/

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/07/sensor-stack-thickness-part-iii-the-summary/
 
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Thanks for this Bern. I remember a special version being made in the past, and wasn't sure if it was still the case since the new Pocket 4K uses the same sony sensor as the GH5s?

Per my knowledge, the speedbooster i have works equally well with the GH5 and GH5s?

Will the new Pocket 4K retain the same sensor stack thickness?
 
As I understand it BlackMagic is sticking with it’s sensor stack thickness.

That said many BlackMagic owners have added a 3rd Party OLPF that effectively changes this thickness, & seem to be getting on OK with fast glass.
 
filmguy123 said:
I watched that before you posted and when I saw the end tag shot on Lumix 12-35 I just said, aww crap.

I coulda swore it was some beautiful high end zeiss or vintage leica. Nope. The freaking lumix 12-35. Just shows how much the aritifical processing wrecks those lenses and it's beyond me why Panasonic doesn't just have a quasi RAW mode that shuts off their NR, sharpening, etc. to get us closer to this. Just stunning footage.
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A lot of that video was shot on the 35-100 which is a much better lens. Uncorrected the 12-35 has a lot of distortion and CA and I haven't seen any evidence of artificial processing to correct these defects wrecking the image. I've used it on the BMPCC and it's not very good for these very reasons. The fact that the image looks good is likley to be from other factors IMO.
 
Shirozina said:
A lot of that video was shot on the 35-100 which is a much better lens. Uncorrected the 12-35 has a lot of distortion and CA and I haven't seen any evidence of artificial processing to correct these defects wrecking the image. I've used it on the BMPCC and it's not very good for these very reasons. The fact that the image looks good is likley to be from other factors IMO.
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There are some other examples of stuff shot on the 12-35 with the P4K that also look quite nice.

When paired with the GH5, it has a visible, digital "edge" to it that many find unflattering. You may not notice it, and it is subtle, but it is there.
 
joe12south said:
Amen, brother. If Panasonic would simply allow me to record as un-adulterated an image as possible - even with the current codec - I don't think I'd be buying the P4k. Sure, I'd prefer to have a professional codec, but I'd probably trade it for IBIS and hybrid capabilities.
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This is something we can all agree on. I don’t care if they burry it deep in the camera but I would also love a log mode that strips out all that extra processing. Basically a log format that debayers the image and that’s about it. Not entirely sure why v-log doesn’t do this out of the box since any v-log user would likely prefer as flat of an image as possible. I would also love to see Panasonic put the big boy pants on and actually provide a h.264 4:4:4 option which is entirely possible with h.264. I think removing all processing and providing a 4:4:4 compressed option would go a long way to bridging the raw gap in these cameras.
 
I don't *think* v90 cards could handle the data rate for 4:4:4 at a reasonable quality ratio, but everything else would be eminently doable in a firmware upgrade that would buy Panasonic a ton of pro cred and goodwill.

You're so right about V-LOG L. Once they opened that door, the argument that level of image control would be bad/confusing for less experienced users flew away. I really would love to know why they won't do this. They must have some logic to this intentional decision, but it escapes me.
 
I've got the 12-35, 12-40, 12-60 and 12-60 SWD (not sensible I know). The 12-35 is the worst performer of the lot and removing in-camera distortion correction and CA does not turn it into a good lens. If you shoot RAW stills and process the images in C1 or DXO you can turn off distortion correction and see the true nature of these lenses and the 12-35 is nothing special optically. I see that BM themselves seem to like the OL lenses (12-40) which is a better performer although it lacks IS so not suitable for handheld shooting tests like these.
 
joe12south said:
I don't *think* v90 cards could handle the data rate for 4:4:4 at a reasonable quality ratio, but everything else would be eminently doable in a firmware upgrade that would buy Panasonic a ton of pro cred and goodwill.

You're so right about V-LOG L. Once they opened that door, the argument that level of image control would be bad/confusing for less experienced users flew away. I really would love to know why they won't do this. They must have some logic to this intentional decision, but it escapes me.
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They released a crippled V-LOG in V-LOG L.....
Without in-camera NR the GH5 image may be too noisey for most. We also don't know at what point in the internal processing chain the NR occurs so it may not be possible to bypass it easily. The sharpening may also be a function of the subsampling process so again not easily fixed and if you want RAW from a GH5 you will need to accept a cropped output.
 
Shirozina said:
The 12-35 is the worst performer of the lot and removing in-camera distortion correction and CA does not turn it into a good lens. If you shoot RAW stills and process the images in C1 or DXO you can turn off distortion correction and see the true nature of these lenses and the 12-35 is nothing special optically.
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I have the 12-35 and I've long suspected this is why Panasonic wouldn't turn it off. Obviously these ProAV tests are limited but they looked good to me. Then again, run a lens in enough scenarios and watch it get ripped to shred in reviews, and watch Panasonic embarrass themselves with their own branded lenses... and that's probably the real reason. Which is annoying - maybe had they not cut corners on expensive glass, we wouldn't be in this predicament eh?

I would think the Leica branded stuff fairs better - the 12-60, for example, or their lauded 42.5 prime, and upcoming 10-25. Has that been your experience with the 12-60 you own?

All I know is that with the S1 coming, the Pocket 4k out, Olympus and Fuji heating things up, and of course the ever present Sony.... the GH6 seems pretty likely to pull no punches here. I'm hoping Panasonic comes out swinging in 2020 with a 2 models at launch (resolution/speed), IBIS v2 in all, RAW mode or quasi-RAW mode, better mojo and options to disable certain items, higher res LCD, 4k 120, etc. I fully believe in the m43 formats long term (especially after seeing the latest BM footage here!!) and Panasonic has built some GREAT tools and ecosystem here with olympus. If they'd just shoe in some of these visual issues with their mojo and look it's truly a platform to be reckoned with... lenses like the Leica 10-25, 42.5, 50-200, Veydra and Voigts, etc. + all the adaptibility... not to mention Olympus' whole line up of killer lenses.

Oh, and Oly + pana should really get together for the next iteration and have a chat to make their m43 lenses cross compatible so Dual IS is available on all m43 lenses between Panasonic, Leica, Olympus on any body. But I doubt we'll get so lucky.
 
filmguy123 said:
I have the 12-35 and I've long suspected this is why Panasonic wouldn't turn it off. Obviously these ProAV tests are limited but they looked good to me. Then again, run a lens in enough scenarios and watch it get ripped to shred in reviews, and watch Panasonic embarrass themselves with their own branded lenses... and that's probably the real reason. Which is annoying - maybe had they not cut corners on expensive glass, we wouldn't be in this predicament eh?

I would think the Leica branded stuff fairs better - the 12-60, for example, or their lauded 42.5 prime, and upcoming 10-25. Has that been your experience with the 12-60 you own?

All I know is that with the S1 coming, the Pocket 4k out, Olympus and Fuji heating things up, and of course the ever present Sony.... the GH6 seems pretty likely to pull no punches here. I'm hoping Panasonic comes out swinging in 2020 with a 2 models at launch (resolution/speed), IBIS v2 in all, RAW mode or quasi-RAW mode, better mojo and options to disable certain items, higher res LCD, 4k 120, etc. I fully believe in the m43 formats long term (especially after seeing the latest BM footage here!!) and Panasonic has built some GREAT tools and ecosystem here with olympus. If they'd just shoe in some of these visual issues with their mojo and look it's truly a platform to be reckoned with... lenses like the Leica 10-25, 42.5, 50-200, Veydra and Voigts, etc. + all the adaptibility... not to mention Olympus' whole line up of killer lenses.

Oh, and Oly + pana should really get together for the next iteration and have a chat to make their m43 lenses cross compatible so Dual IS is available on all m43 lenses between Panasonic, Leica, Olympus on any body. But I doubt we'll get so lucky.
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The 12-60 Leica is OK - but not amazing. I find I need 5.6 to get optimal sharpness out to the edges. The 12-40 is exceptionally good - sharp wide open at 2.8 right across the frame and with nice MF control as well. Best of the bunch in many ways is the old OL 12-60 2.8-4 SWD but it has no usable AF and is big and heavy but needs no software correction and has a bit of image 'mojo' about it when used wide open.....
 
The olympus Pro 12-100mm f4 is exceptional


QUOTE=Shirozina;1986769462]The 12-60 Leica is OK - but not amazing. I find I need 5.6 to get optimal sharpness out to the edges. The 12-40 is exceptionally good - sharp wide open at 2.8 right across the frame and with nice MF control as well. Best of the bunch in many ways is the old OL 12-60 2.8-4 SWD but it has no usable AF and is big and heavy but needs no software correction and has a bit of image 'mojo' about it when used wide open.....[/QUOTE]
 
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