Nigel, I got offered a great deal on a Letus Ultimate and was tempted to buy it along with the B4 relay for my PMW350. I was thinking about waiting for the 2nd Gen S35 cameras before I upgraded my camera. I've seen amazing results from the Letus adapters, especially the Ultimate and even done a filmout on one project that looked great. How do you think a camera like the PMW350 with relay and Ultimate would compare to the F3? Thanks in advance!
Game On - Sony F3
- Thread starter Nigel A
- Start date
Nigel, I got offered a great deal on a Letus Ultimate and was tempted to buy it along with the B4 relay for my PMW350. I was thinking about waiting for the 2nd Gen S35 cameras before I upgraded my camera. I've seen amazing results from the Letus adapters, especially the Ultimate and even done a filmout on one project that looked great. How do you think a camera like the PMW350 with relay and Ultimate would compare to the F3? Thanks in advance!
Mike
The B4 relay from Letus has its good and bad points. Its price is right compared to the Pro 35, but you have to be careful how wide open you go on the relay. There is definitely more light loss in this scenario, and as we’ve seen with the adapters in general. I had one of the first generation relays (not the pro) and it did work out OK. I actually shot a feature with it and a Letus Extreme, and we just compensated with more light.
The F3 is very sharp and sensitive. Its nice to have that S35 depth of field, no light loss, high signal to noise ratio, and more latitude to work with. I’ve definitely noticed that latitude difference from my two third inch camera to the F3. I think you also get two different looks. With the extra glass on adapters, I find it had a slightly softer feel to it, which helped out with that “film look” . The F3 is clean, has some nice features in the gamma settings, with similarities to the 9000/F35, and I look forward to playing in the picture profiles to tweak the set up. I just cut a version of my reel that that all of the above and DSLR’s on it, and I like it all.
With the different options of zoom lens for the F3, and s-log through dual link in the spring, this will give even more flexibility. If we’re talking strictly adapter vs F3, I’ve gotta go F3. At this price point its a lot less than we paid for 2/3 inch cameras and adapters and gives you a lot more, while not having an outlay of over 40k. I’m cleaning house with my gear and jumping on this next wave. I know its just a start in this category of camera, and hope there isn’t another one just around the corner. Although, there are rumors about cameras in that broadcast size we know with big sensors for next year as well.
So for right now I’m getting in with the F3 and going to make this camera work. Its another tool we have to work with, just like how it started with the adapters to get that "cinematic" look, and watch and see what else happens.
Just like a lot of cameras out there you have to make compromises, and this is no different. It doesn't have everything that you would want for every type of shoot, but its got some nice things going for it in this class, and in my favourite quote from Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge, " I say he improvised, he overcame and adapted" Isn't that what we do
Chris Santucci
Veteran
Tell those kids if they poked some holes in that ball, it wouldn't bounce so much :thumbsup:
Didn't want to use a real road hockey ball, in case a wild shot hit that Cooke S4. Didn't need that insurance claim. World Juniors in Buffalo. Happy hosting
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
Thanks much. 
Duke M.
Veteran
While I like the fact that my EX1 handle rotates, that feature makes it stick out farther and creates torque on the wrist. That's tiring.
I'm assuming the flatter hand grip of the F3 will be more like my old XH-A1, which was didn't have anywhere near the wrist strain. Let us know what you think.
That said all hand held becomes a pain really quickly.
Hi Duke
So, I tried the camera and I'm pretty sure that I won't be buying one. The ergonomics are terrible. It is going to take some serious scaffolding to make the F3 work handheld. Maybe they'll release a shoulder mount down the line. Apparently a lot of people have been complaining about the design and the lack of a proper VF.
However, the images are superb from what I could tell. It's basically a beefed up EX1 with a S35 sensor and extra options to allow 4:4:4 and S-log. Low light is about the best I've seen and the image has very little noise. I also so a few other new bits of kit, I wrote it all up in my blog with pictures and video etc:
Click here for Blog!
Mike
These new cameras definitely need that Zacuto, Red rock supports for handheld. I guess its no different than what you have to do with the DSLR's ore the EX. Their new EVF's in the new year will help that out. I'm mainly going to use this camera on tripod, jib, dolly situations, and a hand held rig in "controlled" situations. I guess I'm approaching it more not as a run and gun doc type camera for now. Nice thoughts on your blog. They had mentioned the nex cam as "similar", but is it the same??? We will have to wait and see.
Andrew Stone
Veteran
Good write up Mike. A refreshing and different take on the F3 and the NXCAM.
The whole issue around the placement of the LCD viewfinder (and the rear mounted one for that matter) on the F3 makes me wonder about what kind of user testing Sony did when they developed their first prototypes of the camera. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the development of recent previous efforts like the EX series cams with the EX3's "Henry Moore" shaped bottom and their roundly bad servo zoom mechanisms. A bit of user testing, a BIT, would have smoked out both these problems. Same with the F3. Within a day of release in November, people were wailing about the placement of both viewfinders.
Realistically though this camera is going to be (or should be) used by filmmakers who would have external monitors hooked up to them but to make the on camera viewfinders less than optimal is unfortunate, to say the least.
The whole issue around the placement of the LCD viewfinder (and the rear mounted one for that matter) on the F3 makes me wonder about what kind of user testing Sony did when they developed their first prototypes of the camera. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the development of recent previous efforts like the EX series cams with the EX3's "Henry Moore" shaped bottom and their roundly bad servo zoom mechanisms. A bit of user testing, a BIT, would have smoked out both these problems. Same with the F3. Within a day of release in November, people were wailing about the placement of both viewfinders.
Realistically though this camera is going to be (or should be) used by filmmakers who would have external monitors hooked up to them but to make the on camera viewfinders less than optimal is unfortunate, to say the least.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
This may be a continuing theme from the other thread, but the EX body is clearly just a vessel for the new S35 sensor. A lot of the short comings seem to stem from the carry over from the EX body; internal recording, form factor, etc.
Sony could have done like Red and black box this sensor, and sell VF, LCDs, batteries etc. as accessories and have no internal recorder. Rely on the 3 HD-SDI for monitoring and recording. It may have been a better marketing tactic since it differentiates the products, but in reality it probably would be around the same price as it is now.
But as you've brought it up in your blog, the NXCAM may be all that many people need since it uses the same sensor as the F3 (as you've confirmed in your blog). Its good to know that the NXCAM will also have HD-SDI, though I'm guessing it won't have the dual-HD SDI that would be necessary to get 60p 10bit 4:2:2 since it won't have the necessary 3gigs of output necessary.
However, it probably will have 1080/60p via AVCHD like the AF100 and better internal recording and lens adaptability due to the E-mount with the short-FFD. I wonder however if the new F3 cinezooms will work on this NXCAM.
Hi Steve,
The Sony rep told me it was the same and said I could quote him so I hope he wasn't lying! He also said that it should have 10bit 4:2:2 HD-SDI but I think that was more of a presumption because it already exists on lower NXCAM models.
Is there a SXS recording capability in the NX?
The F3 would give alot more flexibility to have a "dirty quick" option for videos that aren't destined for the heavy duty post work flow. This is the main reason why im not investing in a RED, only about half of my clients are interested in RAW, and out of that half, only about 5% can actually handle it in their post work flow. The rest struggle, with it, and curse their choice when they realize whats actually involved.
having the SXS-XDCAM option is a HUGE selling point to me.
The F3 would give alot more flexibility to have a "dirty quick" option for videos that aren't destined for the heavy duty post work flow. This is the main reason why im not investing in a RED, only about half of my clients are interested in RAW, and out of that half, only about 5% can actually handle it in their post work flow. The rest struggle, with it, and curse their choice when they realize whats actually involved.
having the SXS-XDCAM option is a HUGE selling point to me.
Duke M.
Veteran
While details are sparse on the NXCam, they have announced that it is AVCHD. At 24Mbps it ought to be equivalent to the 35Mbps on the EX cams but be on SDHC.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
A S35mm sensor requires a 27mm diameter image circle to be projected from the lens to fully cover the sensor. A full-frame 35mm by comparison reguires 43.3mm. Sony's APS-C (as are Nikon's) standard is bit larger than Canon's and projects at minimum a 28.4mm image circle.
In reality most lenses project a much larger image circle than the minimum requirements due to image quality reasons. Regardless, the E-mount is already projecting an image circle large enough to comfortably cover the S35 sensor.