Other: FX9 w/old BPU battery knock offs using power plug

L

LennyLevy

Veteran
I have a bunch of BP-U type 14.4V Swit S-8U62 and Series7 EX-L96 batteries that require using a cable to the DC power port . That's how I've powered my EX- 1, F3 , and FS7 cameras for years. However I noticed that the voltage listed for that port is now 19.5V and that the Hawk Woods and Core V mt adapters mention that their voltage is stepped up to 19.5 V's going into that port.

Does that mean my 7 workhorse batteries are now worthless on the FX9? That would be a major and very expensive drag!

I am a little confused because the newer generation of knockoff batteries don't seem to use the cable that mine required. Is that because they figured out how to override the code that Sony used to prevent third party BP-U type batteries, or did Sony stop preventing them from being used?

If mine won't work anymore will other newer 3rd party BP-U 60 & 90 batts work and can anyone recommend brands that are reliable and less expensive?

I was going to buy a Vmt adapter anyway.

Lenny
 
You are correct at least as far as the Series 7, it will not work w the Fx9. I have one as well so mine has now been relegated to the Fs7 exclusively.

I recently purchased the Shape BPU 65 battery for use with the Fx9. The Shape battery actually supplies more juice for the Fx9 then my Sony BPU90 and It also has a D-tap and USB. Fully charged the BPU90 gives me 187 minutes w the FX9 while the BPU65 gives me near 220 minutes fully charged. I picked up The Shape for $125 via B&H which is roughly half the cost of the Sony BPU60 but unfortunately it looks as though they don't make a BPU90 equivalent...so i ordered another BPU65.
 
Thanks, That's very helpful info as is your post on the other thread here about powering options

I apparently got blindsided by this. My FX9 arrives today but it sounds like none of my batteries will work for it .

I am confused about what's going on with these batteries and the FX9. I get that the FX9 needs more power, but the apparent Voltage and WH of a BP-U60 and a BP-U65 don't look that different. Why should the BP-U65 provide that much more run time? Moreover how will that translate if you get one of the V mount adapters?

Will a Sony BP-U65 or BP-U95 provide more run time than a traditional V mount 65 or 95WH battery?

It looks like I should pick up a couple of the Shape BP-U65s ASAP . I have some 95WH V mounts but I don't think those adapters are even available yet.
 
Is the shape battery long enough to stick out the back of the FX9 so that the D-tap is actually usable? or is it stuck far enough inside the battery "cave" that running a d-tap cable is impossible, or straining on the cable?
 
LennyLevy said:
I am confused about what's going on with these batteries and the FX9. I get that the FX9 needs more power, but the apparent Voltage and WH of a BP-U60 and a BP-U65 don't look that different. Why should the BP-U65 provide that much more run time? Moreover how will that translate if you get one of the V mount adapters?
Click to expand...

Lenny this doesn't make a lot of sense to me that the FX9 camera HAS to have a constant 19 volts fed to its external input. My past experience has been that this very same issue raised it's head in the past with FS7 models though the difference being that their maximum voltage is listed as 17V. Sorry this is a bit long but it's a bit hard to condense the following information much shorter.

All voltage references below are drawn from the FX9 Operations Manual on pages #100 and #101.

With the FX9 if you only look at the 'Technical>Camera DC IN Alarm' menu then yes the settings for DC Low Voltage1 are 16.0V to 19V with (16.5V) being the default. The DC Low Voltage2 settings are 15.5V to 18.5V with 15.5 being the default.

On the other hand though if you go to the menu 'Technical>Ext. Battery Alarm' where it specifically says "Set the remaining battery level to display a battery low-voltage alarm for an Anton/Bauer battery." These batteries would normally be used with a D Tap cable if not being used on a genuine Sony CA back. Like your cable equipped BPU batteries.

This 'Technical>Ext. Battery Alarm' menu states Near End Other Battery voltages as 11.5V to 17.00V with 11.8 being the default and the End:Other Battery as 11.0V to 14.0V with 11.0V being the default and says "Sets the remaining battery level to display a battery end alarm for an Anton/Bauer battery and to stop media access."

Using this 'Technical>Ext. Battery Alarm' menu with the correct settings when feeding for example a D Tap voltage straight from a freshly charged V Loc or AB battery the camera I think should function correctly without power issues or early cut-off.

My past experience has been that a lot of operators made mistakes with these settings and got caught out with a camera suddenly cutting out is because the 'Near End Other Battery' and 'End:Other Battery voltages haven't been changed. On most Sony cameras they MUST be changed to set the proper voltage range for the external batteries being used. Most modern V Loc batteries for example are 14.8V and are made up of usually 4 x 3.7V Li-ion batteries. Fully charged these cells reach about 4.2V each giving us a total of 16.8V. Most quality 3.7V cells are considered to be technically flat at 3.0V per cell. 4 x 3.0V gives us 12V for most V Loc type batteries to be considered discharged. In fact discharging them to below 12V can damage the battery and can even cause irreversible reverse polarity that can damage connected equipment.

To avoid sudden shut off and to remain within the design parameters of most 14.8V batteries or even 14.4V batteries it is advised that the 'Near End Other Battery' voltage should be set to 13.5V and the 'End:Other Battery' voltage set to no less than 12.5V. If these suggested voltages are used you will generally get around 5-10 minutes of indicator warning between 13.5V and the end solid light warning at 12.5V if your V Loc or AB batteries are in reasonably good order and are delivering around 16.5V straight off the charger. If the camera is looking for a low voltage setting that is around 15.5V that voltage would be reached quite rapidly on a V Loc or AB batteries and almost immediately with 14.4V BPU series batteries that have been sitting on the shelf for a couple of days as often their sitting voltage is around that 15.5V.

If using non cable connected BPU series batteries where the voltage sensing is being done through the camera battery connector plate the yes the camera would shut down almost immediately as the settings related to battery connector are those under the 'Technical>Camera DC IN Alarm' menu. Under this menu the Low setting is 15.5V which is useless for older 14.4V batteries. If using the commonly available BPU60/90 type batteries set the voltages in the 'Technical>Camera DC IN Alarm' menu to the same as for the V Loc/AB settings. In other words the 'Near End Other Battery' voltage should be set to 13.5V and the 'End:Other Battery' voltage set to no less than 12.5V. This should correct almost all instant cut out issues with a fresh BPU battery and give you decent run times for these voltages although not as long as you would be used to as the FX9 does have a higher current draw. These voltages are obviously okay for the camera because the 'Technical >Ext. Unit Battery AlarmSets XDCA-FX9 battery settings' for Anton Bauer batteries can use voltages in the 11-14V range.

I have set up numerous FS7's for operators using the above settings and not one to date has had any power/cut out issues. Although the factory settings on the FS7 are lower than the FX9 so the issue wasn't as pressing as it appears to be with the FX9 with it's higher default settings. I have yet to run external battery power tests on an FX9 but going by the external power menu settings listed in the FX9 Operations Manual for Anton Bauer batteries I see no reason to expect any unusual issues based on my previous FS7 findings. Lenny if you can try these settings or any other FX9 users for that matter and post back the your findings I for one and I think many others would be glad to see them. I will definitely be checking this out when I get my hands on an FX9 but in the meantime if this voltage issue can be sorted out earlier all the better.

Chris Young
 
Chris,
I was a little confused by your last post. I'm not sure that you understand that the external power plug is different on the FX9 -- in fact it uses the same power setup as my old PMW-X180 -- where the external power plug is the same 19.5v plug that my old VAIO laptops used (and I can actually use those power adapters) -- but the camera takes the BP-U batteries (and their lower voltage) for onboard power.
Hence, if using older A-B or V-Mount batteries they need to go through a voltage regulated converter to upconvert them to 19.5v if being connected to the external power plug.
 
XDeathOrGloryX said:
Is the shape battery long enough to stick out the back of the FX9 so that the D-tap is actually usable? or is it stuck far enough inside the battery "cave" that running a d-tap cable is impossible, or straining on the cable?
Click to expand...

I don't own the Shape but I discovered today that my Swit 93 w/ D-Tap on top of the battery is far enough inside the cavern of the FX9 that I can't use the D-Tap. I was also interested in the Shape battery so looked up the dimensions and it's a little shorter than the Swit, so I imagine (but cannot confirm) that the D-Tap on the Shape wouldn't be usable with the FX9. Staying tuned in case I'm wrong, however.
 
OnSet said:
Chris,
I was a little confused by your last post.
Click to expand...

Yes OnSet! I can now see why you were confused. I didn't realize the plug had changed. Also after re-examining my calculations I see what I suggested would not be possible. The only way to set lower voltages to work with V Loc or AB batteries is via the "Technical >Ext. Unit Battery AlarmSets XDCA-FX9 battery settings.ItemSub-item setting." menu which only applies if you are using the XDCA-FX9 Extension Unit. Sorry for pointing you on a bum steer.

I now see the DC in menu states:

"Technical >Camera DC IN AlarmSets input voltage alarm settings.ItemSub-item setting Description DC Low Voltage1 16.0V to 19.0V (16.5V) Sets the voltage to display a DC IN low input voltage alarm. DC Low Voltage2 15.5V to 18.5V Sets the voltage to display a DC IN insufficient input voltage alarm."

So this DC input does not allow settings below 15.5V. Very cunning Sony. So you are compelled to use a DC/DC converter to generate between 16-19 volts if you want to use the external DC input socket. Interesting.

In the past when I have had requirements like this, not specifically for cameras but for older component to SDI converters for OBs I have used V Loc batteries and DC-DC car power converter regulators mounted on one side of a cheese plate with a V Loc plate on the other side of the cheese plate to get the 19V from a V Loc battery.

I notice the FX9 power specs are as follows:

Power Requirements DC 16-19V
Power Consumption Approx. 35.2 W (while recording XAVC-I QFHD 59.94p, SELP28135G Lens, Viewfinder ON, not using external device)
Operating Temperature 0°C to 40°C - 32°F to 104°F

That being the case if you already have a V Loc plate with a regulated 12V or a free floating output of 11-18V just inserting a 12V to 19V 4A 76W step up DC/DC converter between the 12V output of the V Loc plate and the 19V DC input on the camera would be a solution to the voltage and current requirements of the FX9. A water proof DC/DC converter with a 19V output and 4A output capacity that can handle up to a 76V draw with a 40MV ripple spec would fit the bill quite nicely. This would provide more than enough power, more than double the power and current requirements of the FX9. This also provide a big overhead safety margin. You would just need to get the correct plug for the camera. Which from what you said is the same as a VIAO laptop so shouldn't be too hard to source.

DC/DC Converter
Input voltage: DC 12v wide voltage 9V to 18V
Output voltage: DC 19V, output current: 4A, power 76W
Peak output current: 4A Max
Long-term load: 4A (76W) less
Ripple: 40MV
Adapt to the environment temperature: -40 °C ~ + 85 °C industrial grade
Input: red (+) black (-) output: the yellow line (+) black (-)
Dimension: 58 x 58 x 4

As I have a load of V Loc batteries, more than a dozen, I'm pretty sure I would be giving considerable thought to going down this or a similar solution path with an FX9 If I wanted to save some $$$s. Especially as I already have the V Loc and cheese plates required. I would just need a pre-built $14 DC/DC 12-19V converter some cable and a couple of plugs, camera and D Tap ones. It's either that or you bite the bullet and invest in the new BPU batteries or buy one of the new 19V DC/DC V Loc plates coming onto the market like the more elegant Core SWX V-Mount Bracket for Sony FX9.

Like any of my suggestions, all care but no responsibility taken if suggestions used:) Seriously though I'm 99,9% sure the above would be fine.

EDIT: Would rather use one of these with the higher specs:

https://bit.ly/30W0UCO

Waterproof, anti-shock protection, stable performance. Conversion efficiency more than 93%. Input instantaneous high pressure protection, output over-current protection, overheating protection chip.

Specifications
Power model: XW-12-19-152W

Input voltage: DC 12V(9V-18V)
Output voltage: DC 19V
Output current: 8A
Output power: 152W
Weight: 290g/1pc
Environmental temperature: -40 ℃ ~ +85 ℃ ( industrial level )

Chris Young

https://ebay.to/37DEAAB

DC-DC 12v to 19v.jpg
 
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