FS7: FX9 Super 35

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david dominguez

Well-known member
Hey everyone,

has anyone heard of any disadvantages of shooting S35 on the soon to be released FX9?

I'm wondering if there will be more noise, less detail or less latitude when shooting in S35 mode?

I don't really care for full frame and would most likely choose S35 over full frame 95% of the time.

thanks in advance!
 
should be fine.
Won't have the increased resolution from the 6K down convert you get in FF but otherwise I haven't heard of any downsides/. You'll still have all the other advantages of the camera.
 
I’m wondering too. My guess is yes, there will be slightly more noise and slightly less detail. How much? Guess we just have to wait and see.
But compared to an FS7 you’ll get more dynamic range, better colour, less noise, higher sensitivity.

So even if the S35 is slightly worse than the FF it’ll probably still be pretty damn good.

I’m planning to use it in FF most of the time but a bit interested in the S35 for some hand held stuff as I can then use the smaller, lighter aps-c lenses that also have OSS, which most of the FF Sony lenses lack.
 
S35 is like the FS7 but with improved noise. FF is like FS7 with a speed booster but with improved noise and improved detail. FF noise is better than S35. Both are a vast improvement on FS7.
 
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Not much being said about rolling shutter at the mo. I suspect S35 will have less cadence judder, no?

Ben.
 
thanks for all the replies.

I overheard someone say that dynamic range would take a hit. I'm not sure why it would? has anyone else heard that?
 
Until someone put FS7 and FX9 next to eachother and Test them will we know about the added benifits of the FX9.
 
I'm concerned IQ is going to take a hit in S35 mode. Given that 2K center crop on the FS7 produces a substandard image, even though it's still technically 1920x1080 resolution.
 
dipstik said:
I'm concerned IQ is going to take a hit in S35 mode. Given that 2K center crop on the FS7 produces a substandard image, even though it's still technically 1920x1080 resolution.
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That's not strictly true. I investigated this in great detail a few years back.

Sony’s Super 16 crop sensor dimensions are 12.7mm x 6.75mm for 2178 x 1148 which results in a diagonal of 14.5mm, a fair bit larger, 32% larger than the 11mm diagonal of a 1920 HD sensor. 2178 x 1148 gives us total of 2,500,344, a resolution of approximately 2.5K. The generally accepted figure is a Bayer sensor loses about 20% of its resolution after de-Bayer. For example a 4K sensor has a resolution of 3.2 K a 2K sensor has a resolution of 1.6K and a 1920 sensor has a resolution of 1.5K. Based on Sony’s Super 16 figures of 2178 x 1148 the center crop function results in a 2.5K crop. One could then calculate the following. After applying a 20% loss in resolution after de-Bayer the image produced is in the order of 2,000,275. Very close to 2K in other words.

Following these calculations leads me to the conclusion that the Super 16 Center Crop function in the Sony FS7 / F5 / F55 after de-Bayer can and does actually actually deliver a TRUE full resolution 1920 x 1080 HD image.

Doug Jensen did a very good side by side comparison of the FS7's FF HD vs the S16 Center Crop. You would be hard pushed to pick any real difference. That can be seen at:

https://vimeo.com/82808203

Sony’s Super 16 sensor crop dimensions were obtained from the AbelCine article linked below. Watch the video there and it's worth a read:

http://blog.abelcine.com/2014/02/13/using-super16-lenses-on-the-sony-f55-in-2k-center-scan-mode/

Chris Young

Correction! F55 in Center Crop and S35. Sorry Doug.
 
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J.Brown said:
Until someone put FS7 and FX9 next to eachother and Test them will we know about the added benifits of the FX9.
Click to expand...

I may have an FX9 for a couple of days pretty soon. I'd welcome any ideas for comparisons people might like to see. Unfortunately, I've got no one who is going to volunteer to be in front of the camera, so faces and people is probably not going to be possible unless I spring for hiring a model.
 
Doug , I would be very interested in whether a perfect color match is possible in custom mode between an FS7 and FX9. Obviously the first thing would be to see if the same settings matched and if not then whether any small tweaks would bring them in line. I think a lot of people are concerned about that for multicam jobs with clients who will still have FS7's.
Ideally do both in Super 35.

I guess likewise perhaps compare burnt in Slog3 with 709A LUT and whatever the basic LUT is for the FX9 If they have 709A available that would be fine.

I'm actually more interested in whether they can match than how different they can look. I'm assuming the FX9 will look better.
 
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Doug if you can compare Slog3 from both cameras at different ISO in both low light and more challanging dynamic scenes. Also HFR from both cameras that be a good start. Faces would be nice but I understand the difficulty finding subjects.

It be interesting to see how noise, color and resolution are between the two.
 
Hi Doug, I second J.Brown request! If you do the lowlight test at all ISO's would it be possible to add a zoom in of 100% to see the quality of the noise? Thanks
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I like Lenny's idea of seeing how well the cameras match in Custom mode. That is definitely on my list. Also how they compare after grading with S-LOG. And Low-light performance is also on my list.

A couple of things I won't be doing is recording an onboard LUT because I'm fundamentally opposed to doing that. I also won't be testing S-LOG3 at various ISOs because the FS7 does not allow the ISO to be changed in CINE EI mode.

Mostly I just want to get out and shoot some nice footage. :-)
 
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