FX3/FX30: FX30.. is this the answer!

M

morgan_moore

Major Contributor
So I have been going around the houses wanting to replace my C200.

What do I want the camera to do??

Have functional AF, have 10bit log, Not overheat, have XLR.. are these the main specs. and ND .

Im I thinking straight..

the Fx30 is super cheap
it wont overheat
it is low mas and has some stabilisation

And when we go on the jib.. some other things happen.. app controlled zoom lenses for £200!

App Zoom on a canon.. c80+24-105 2.8 + motor = $10g

Oh and I have a speedbooster on my FS7 and a 16/2.8 pancake, and a joke 18-260 emount af lens

And unlike my C200 there is a space for a speedbooster.. so I can yonk on my old nikkors

Ans with big HDMI I can jerry rig some little montiro.

Everything abtout the FX30 is horrible.. but all the other cameras are rubbish too!
 
The only thing is the FX2 .. but how is it in crop mode.

Im interested in crop mode because I want this camera on my jib and there are very few PZ lenses that cov er full frame
 
Or fk it? Just get a C80 and a remote zoom motor! (ive already got a 24-70f4 which is 'ok' as a jib lens


Im lost.
 
Morgan you do have some sort of gear syndrome. The search for perfection on a restricted budget. :) Sure to cause anxiety. I have been pleasantly surprised by Sony's color science in the A7iv & A7sIII. Especially if you are shooting LOG. Sony also has that 18-110mm F4 power zoom that is around $1,500 used. Heavy but would make the camera into a camcorder.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Morgan you do have some sort of gear syndrome. The search for perfection on a restricted budget. :) Sure to cause anxiety. I have been pleasantly surprised by Sony's color science in the A7iv & A7sIII. Especially if you are shooting LOG. Sony also has that 18-110mm F4 power zoom that is around $1,500 used. Heavy but would make the camera into a camcorder.
Click to expand...
Exactamundo. The A7iv in crop is the way to go for me for most uses as I have more S35 and APSC lenses left over from the FZ7s. In crop It runs out at 13ms on rolling shutter figures. A bit faster that an FS7 which was clocked at 14ms. Quicker than the FX30 at 16ms. The A7iv in crop give you a 4.6MP down sampled 4K 50-60p image. FF is 7MP downsampled. CIZ doubles your focal length with no perceptible loss of quality. Dynamic range is better than any of the current Sony mirrorless bodies and has only been matched with the arrival of the new A7v.

As Bassman says the Log files can deliver great colors, and skin tones for that matter. Especially if you use Sony's recommended CSTs in Resolve. If you want long run times use fast cards, and the A7iv runs way cooler. I do have the clip in fan for the back that has a temp gauge, but I've never had to use it in anger. Keep the screen away from the body and switch on the Hi-Temp setting in the menu, and you are good to go. In crop 4k shooting indoor theatre events I've run 4 hours 22 minutes without seeing a heat warning. Running external USB-C power at 9 vols 3 amps. If you want some stills, at 33MP in full frame they are plenty decent for most jobs, way better that an FX30 or FX3. Low light low noise? Up to 50,000 ISO it holds its own against the A7Siii or FX3 all day.

My Sony 18-110, ex FS7 absolutely sings on the A7iv. But in crop mode don't knock the el cheapo servo power zoom stabilised F4 constant aperture 18-105 that doesn't get longer when zooming. This lens has become a favourite of the FX30 set. They have just 'discovered' it. Works well on gimbals. As does the 10-18 F4 that is also stabilised. Sony's 10-18 can also be used in full frame from 11 mm on.

Finally, the A7iv can be purchased for a very good price these days. For certain jobs it's my pick over the FX6 because of its considerably better dynamic range.

Chris Young
 
morgan_moore said:
So I have been going around the houses wanting to replace my C200.

What do I want the camera to do??

Have functional AF, have 10bit log, Not overheat, have XLR.. are these the main specs. and ND .
Click to expand...
You are pretty much describing the FX6. AF, 10 bit log, won't overheat, has XLR, has ND. Now there be other things you want that it doesn't have or things you don't like about it, but by that description above, that is definitely the FX6. Or the C70 or C80 for that matter.
 
alaskacameradude said:
You are pretty much describing the FX6. AF, 10 bit log, won't overheat, has XLR, has ND. Now there be other things you want that it doesn't have or things you don't like about it, but by that description above, that is definitely the FX6. Or the C70 or C80 for that matter.
Click to expand...

OK so I did a shoot with the FX6, mounted on my car. for the bbc.

-the app control did not work in a solid manner after testing by a reliable rental house (not shonky me)
-examine the PZ lenses that sony make.. they are mainly 35 coverage.. a mode which the FX6 works in HD only.
(ok there is the pz28mm.. but I want to start mny zoom at 20 or 24 - Id like a 24-70 the most basic coverage lens ever made)

In terms of handheld run and gunning with no IS it is 'janky shtt' IS just smooths the word for shoulder doco shoots.

THe FX30.. same as the FX6 for log codec.. but a range of PZ lenses and 1/4 of the price and mass and modre modern for networking maybe!
----

Chris - Ill reread your post. I use my R6 in crop mode a lot with S35 glass!.

MIrrorless cameras. OK Im scared of overheating, Ive recorded some classical concersts (C200 8bit and FS7).. I do not trust that I can just roll a mirrorless for 90 mins.

Again on my jib. one is psuedo live - we tend to switch on and the swing it up- im might be left on because I cant get to the camera when the crowd is in the room

Im just too scared of directors who want everything 'captured' or the camera being left on when in a remote location

Maybe Im completely wrong.

AFAIK, I can just leave the FX30 on assuming I can hook to a dummy battery

---
 
Bassman2003 said:
Morgan you do have some sort of gear syndrome. The search for perfection on a restricted budget. :) Sure to cause anxiety. I have been pleasantly surprised by Sony's color science in the A7iv & A7sIII. Especially if you are shooting LOG. Sony also has that 18-110mm F4 power zoom that is around $1,500 used. Heavy but would make the camera into a camcorder.
Click to expand...

Maybe I have a gear syndrome. I think I want a remote control camera with a 24-70 2.8, .. not that hard I would think!

Maybe I just want to try and verbailse what I actually want.

I like AF and I like low mass. (this rules out alexa/varicam/vewnice)

The C200.. its perfect.. until you own it and shoot for other people.
The advertised autofocus doesnt work
The advertised app control doesnt work
The EF/s35/no speed bootser puts you in a corner
The director want you to roll in a way that eat a TB a day.

The C70.. Ive shot a lot with that.
The advertised autofocus doesnt work even with an RF 24-70 2.8
The C70 is excluded from the current canon app I think (?)
It doesnt have SDI
it is not appropriate to the 'dream' 24-105 2.8 canon

The C80
Actually with a 24-105 2.8 and £1000 zoom bolt on.. this is maybe where I should be.
Ive asked to try this and canon are non responsive in the UK,

The FX6.. HD only with PZ lenses
THE FX9 heavy with 1994 autofocus (??)

The FX30.. full of flaws. at least its cheap and some of my FS7 toys (speedbooster) come in to play???
 
So I drove to a shop today - lovely early summer day to the thed FX30.

Trying to clear the head. OK I want a camera for a jib that has control (including ND) and a 24-70

And it cam to me that 'cludging' an ND filter is the hardest thing to do.

This focuses priority on..

1) camera with ND
2) camera with functional ap
3).. 20-70 zoom lens .. this just feels good on a jib to be able to show the scene. and 70 to pick a subject

so

C80 is the cheapet camera win an ND filter but canon dont make a 20-70 and we dont know if it has a functional ap
Zoom wise you need a zoom motor or £2000 thingy

fx6 .. has it all .. but only if you buy a zoom motor and stop restricting yourself to the 'PZ'' lenses which are all very 'meh' - sony make some great lenses that are not PZ

The Fx30 felt like a 'fun toy' .. something that could fill a hole

The canon R63 felt a desirable step from my R6i.. but my R6 is fine inside its box!

S
 
This thread should probably be moved to 'cafe' this is my latest chart, if cameras with AF and ND.,. (Have I missed any? sube £10k??)xls.JPG
 
Morgan, I think I misdiagnosed you. You are searching for the mythical perfect camera that is always in the next generation. Like the funny Canadian YouTuber. I feel your pain. The 'makers' just fall short in a lot of areas. It appears you need more than one camera and to rent per different kind of job. I prefer to own as well but if the clients are going to picky, they need to pay more.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Morgan, I think I misdiagnosed you. You are searching for the mythical perfect camera that is always in the next generation. Like the funny Canadian YouTuber. I feel your pain. The 'makers' just fall short in a lot of areas. It appears you need more than one camera and to rent per different kind of job. I prefer to own as well but if the clients are going to picky, they need to pay more.
Click to expand...

Im not looking for the perfect cameras (1000FPS 6k raw, $3000, 500g 20-200T2 zoom) Im looking for a maker that has some form of strategy that hangs together.

To me a (corporate event doc) larger format camera system probably sits around 16-35 24-70 and 70-200 - a basic trinity as old as.. some kids.

My business often involves rigging and mounting cameras... that pushes me to want to operate camera remotely. I could stop my business offer with 'I supply a platform - the trational offer of a camrera grip but beyond being a pure mechanic I feel the grip role really stands on the skilled humans operating the cameras. and balleting the moves.. So I want a camera to operate on.. maybe the C200 (8bit 35mps) is fine for 'practice' and rent better for paid work

Back to the strategy of the makers.

The sony PZ (suitable ffor remote operation) lenses are based around S35, but the camera with ND. (suitable for remote operation with PZ lenses.). is full frame! Its just poor strategy they could 'pz' a 24-70 or thier really interesting 20-70-any day.

A fiz would work on canon or sony! I have clients that use and want both systems.

Canon seem in the C80 to almost have thier sht together if you will pay for a zoom setup while costly is a joke vs the ENG zooms that all love. I respect thier 24-105 f2.8 - but just dont quite feel it as a jib lens.

But I must untangle what there is a market for that I can fulfill. Im certainly reallising that remote zoom provided by the sony is a fail, and the Canon too.

Im focussing on researching FIZ that can be applied to my or a clients camera. It will offer more flexibility like using prime or anamorphic lenses if there is a desire (even though I generally would not choose them myself as I tend do be focussed on coverage)

While being unimpressed with the C80 .. it would probably be the best of a bad bunch. My time with the FX6 was educational for focus.. Ill be properly checking C80 focus befroe making a choice.
 
What do you want to control? Absolutely everything?

The right hand grip from tilta's advanced gimbal ring (https://tilta.com/shop/advanced-rin...dzaWjcsndujR7R_tRGILkRrnGauipkHLgukgdKwYvSpHV) can control:

- ronin 4s pro gimbal
- start/stop on some cameras via bluetooth.

But also it can work with the DJI focus pro lidar system, where instead of controlling the gimbal it can be used to focus. I don't know the ranege, but I thought it aw pretty cool to have as a different type of wireless follow focus. If there's a wireless camera monitor that could use the right grip I mention as a handle, it'd be a nice functional system with screen/handle. But maybe it'd be a 3D printed gear and using it for zoom instead, while still using an AF lens?
 
What do you want to control? Absolutely everything?

I want to handle a stuation where the sun might go in or come out. and to zoom to change shot size between 24 and 70 when the camera is 'somehwere' it cannot be physically reached.

Id like this to work in busy places that are RF dense.

I want to control everything a director might want controlled. But mainly exposrue and AF box position.

(Im not greedy wanting 'punch in' or engagement of HFR play back) just Focus, iris, ND (i rarely use iso or colour balance as I live in log world)

I would liike to remind folks that sony and canon have apps that control everything (on paper).. for free.

As does my Osmo and do Ring doorbells.

Its just that there is no evidende that the apps made by the big two (forget nikon/red who dont have an ND cameras that function when the sun comes out) dont actually work or come together with a system that works.

FX6 - usb to cat 5 - didnt work, C70 usv to cat 5 - same.. C80.. cat five, Ive booked a test.
Sony PZ lenses s35,.. sony 4k cameras.. fullframe!
Canon zoom -24-105 2.8 only as a $2000 bolt on.

Yes Im spending the weekend doing a 'deep dive' into the state of 'independant tech' being mainly DJI and Tilta.

The advantage of these techs and fiz solutions is that they will work with the camera selected by the DP also on 'stupid anamorphics' and the like!

Edit.. using mty canon R6 with a usb wire. im getting the best connection ive ever had on an ipad, interesting! even though the wifi is useless. as it using that camera as a webcam
sdcreen.jpeg
 
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What about c400 with a very long USB-C to relocate the touch screen monitor? Not necessarily in terms of the actual camera, but would a single cable running from camera work or still be a deal breaker?
 
morgan_moore said:
Maybe I have a gear syndrome. I think I want a remote control camera with a 24-70 2.8, .. not that hard I would think!

Maybe I just want to try and verbailse what I actually want.

I like AF and I like low mass. (this rules out alexa/varicam/vewnice)

The C200.. its perfect.. until you own it and shoot for other people.
The advertised autofocus doesnt work
The advertised app control doesnt work
The EF/s35/no speed bootser puts you in a corner
The director want you to roll in a way that eat a TB a day.

The C70.. Ive shot a lot with that.
The advertised autofocus doesnt work even with an RF 24-70 2.8
The C70 is excluded from the current canon app I think (?)
It doesnt have SDI
it is not appropriate to the 'dream' 24-105 2.8 canon

The C80
Actually with a 24-105 2.8 and £1000 zoom bolt on.. this is maybe where I should be.
Ive asked to try this and canon are non responsive in the UK,

The FX6.. HD only with PZ lenses
THE FX9 heavy with 1994 autofocus (??)

The FX30.. full of flaws. at least its cheap and some of my FS7 toys (speedbooster) come in to play???
Click to expand...
Sorry MM. One correction.

You say the FX6 is HD only with PZ lenses. That is incorrect as you have the full frame 28-135 mm F4 with servo zoom and stabilisation. And if you are on a boom I doubt that shallow DOF and F/2.8 is a major prerequisite.

And I have to ask why you need all the FIZ motors etc?

If you have Sony's wider FE PZ 16-35mm f/4 G and Sony's FE 28-135mm f/4 G PZ OSS you can control everything from your jib handle with touch control using either a long hardwired USB-C Hi-Speed data cable to the camera. Or control wirelessly, totally cable free, if you want. Your choice. Servo zoom can be controlled far more accurately and smoothly using a decent quality servo zoom controller that can plug into the FX6's second LANC port on its back end. I have the German BeBob and Fotga LANC controllers that work very well. With the Fotga I can also control the iris via a rotary control wheel on its controller, if so desired.

All you need for the FX6 is a free download from Sony. It's Sony's Monitor and Control App. It's free from the Play or App store. You can run Monitor and Control App on almost any late model Android or Apple phone or tablet, or iPad. Using a tablet or iPad or large phone this can then become a vision monitor with full touch control of the FX6. If you are using the USB-C tethering method on a long shoot it's nice that it keeps your phone or tablet charged.

Running the FX6 this way I can concentrate on jib movement and zoom framing while an assistant can control Iris and Focus. In most cases I leave the camera on Full AF if operating one out. Allowing me to concentrate on adjusting iris, framing and zoom. If you want to check the last take, you can also do that from the App. You just switch to Thumbnail mode and any clip on either card is available for playback.

Below is a composite image of four screenshots off my Samsung phone as an example. Top left is clear screen, top right is the full info screen. Bottom left is the Iris control screen and bottom right is the Focus control screen. All your touch / tracking / response speed and transition controls are also all available. All your additional tools / aides like false color, WFM, Vector etc. etc are switchable on/off and moveable for suitable screen position. Plus stop / start functions of course.

This just makes the FX6 so simple and fast to set up and run remotely with minimal added 'junk' and cables on the camera. What's not like about it? I have nothing against FIZ motors. I have a full set of PD Air FIZ wireless motors, for when I need them on a purely manual lens.

Chris Young
 

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rob norton said:
What about c400 with a very long USB-C to relocate the touch screen monitor? Not necessarily in terms of the actual camera, but would a single cable running from camera work or still be a deal breaker?
Click to expand...

Yes. the C400 monitorUSB is a great concept... if that monitor worked with the C80 they could sell a bucket full of them.

The c400 is a little heavy and costy but thats a concept. (the FX3 and C80 may move to an RS5 and be workable??)

I think the c80 will work with cat 5 - which im sposed to be booked to test next week.-

Then Im left with a straight choice for zoom.. 24-105 and zoom motor (£4500) or 24-70 and tilta motor.. £300 (this second option works on many lenses!)

As it happens im just looking on chat GPT about USB c max lenght and possible ampifiers..

Provessionally it would be ideal to offer wired and wireless. I dont understand that maker of remote devices do not understand that 'professionals' always want a cable option if they are in RF hell

1) jib - wire
2) car rigs - wire
3) rickshaw or running.. wireless
 
You can get and use, if we are talking USB-C high speed data and 4K capable cables. USB-C cables 5 meters long with the following spec.

"Extra Long 5m USB C 3.2 Cable 20Gbps High Speed Data Transfer, 100W PD Fast Charging, 4K 60Hz Monitor Cable, Nylon Braided Durable Type C Cord Compatible with SSD, Hub, Dock, Laptop, Tablet, Phone ."

From Amazon no less. For about $20 or so.

Chris Young
 
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