Future Canon DSLRs to record "raw" 1080p video?
- Thread starter HeyAndy
- Start date
pulpfiction007
Veteran
I think the most they're going to do in the near future is offer clean hdmi out on more models, so one can bypass the compression.
Bill Koehler
New member
Really, really doubt that. The MB/sec. requirements of RAW video are simply to high. This is why Black Magic Design uses SSD's in the BMCC. I just don't see that happening in DSLR's.
8string
Well-known member
From the lastest info from Magic Latern, it would seem that it's possible, but that likely the heat dissapation in the chips, or some other technical reason would also make it difficult and is likely one reason Canon decided not to. The C100 has a fan. so they were obviously worried about heat problems. I would assume we *will* see it down the road, but not soon. And yes, it would require SSDs likely if it happens in the near future.
maranfilms
Veteran
Heck my t3i overheats when it's to close to a cigarette, never mind shooting raw, Seriously though, I think in the future as tech progresses, they will eventually build faster chips with better heat transfer. I'm guessing in something like 2050 for Canon,,, Sony, probably by the end of next month. 
pulpfiction007
Veteran
The Pocket Camera will be just Pro Res 4:2:2 upon release.
And lossless compressed Cinema DNG recording to be added later through firmware upgrade.
And lossless compressed Cinema DNG recording to be added later through firmware upgrade.
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
I don't see why not. The technology exists. CFast cards, which are the SATA version of CompactFlash, supports up to 600MBps/4.8Gbps.
So at 8bit, you could go as high as 4096p60, at 10bit it is 4096p50, at 12bit to 16bit it is 4096p30, in terms of standard frame rates in RAW.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Yeah, but what I'm saying is, there to needs to be work done for the raw recording...no one really knows what the final solution will be for that. Also...the BMCPC, not being designed for stills, doesn't have to do all that processing from some huge mega pixel count as well.
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
But it is possible to record RAW to SDxc media, or else BM wouldn't claim to be offering it. Point is, storage media isn't necessarily the bottleneck.
Processors aren't really either. Those get cheaper and faster with each camera release. Not too long ago, the 7D used 2 Digic4 chips to give live HDMI out while recording and encoding simultaneously, something a single Digic4 chip couldn't do. Now, we have the Digic5 which more than fast enough to do both on a single processor (why the 5DmIII can do it, but the mII could not). Imagine if a 7DmII comes out with TWO digic5 chips, and what kind of processor power will be available to us!
IMO, the technology is very much there already. Companies like Canon just aren't in any kind of rush to deliver it to us. That's why the BMC cameras are so cool- they are trying to break the barriers of common marketing techniques and give us something awesome with the tech that exists currently, instead of waiting for it to be more profitable later.
RAW doesn't really have any processing done to it, the bottlenecks that appear with RAW are usually just the transfer rate of the storage medium.
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
Yes and no. If the RAW files were uncompressed, you would be correct. However, we often find DNG containers with lossless compression inside, which I assume is necessary to overcome real-time recording speed limitations of the storage medium. Heck, I'm pretty sure even the full sized BMC cams use compression on its way to the SSD.
pulpfiction007's comment was that we aren't sure yet how Black Magic will pull of recording to SD cards in RAW- there will likely need to be some heavy compression (lossless or lossy, now that the DNG standard supports both) in buffer memory at high speed to then dump out to the card at a data rate it can keep up with. pulpfiction007's comment that I was referring to was his concern about processor power necessary to handle both compression of the massive amounts of data likely to be required here as well as the downscaling from 18+mpix that common DSLRs are expected to do in realtime, and that perhaps the BMC pocket can pull this off because it doesn't have a high megapixel sensor to require as much processing time to downscale.
However, I don't think that would be a problem if Canon actually wanted us to have this now. The Digic5 is pretty fast, and I'm not certain that compressing RAW data is really any more processor consuming than encoding into H.264. If it does, they can always do the dual-CPU approach like they did with the 7D, perhaps the 7DmII which has had some rumors will sport 2 Digic5s, which would be more than enough power to handle this sort of thing IMO.
Basically, Canon just needs a DSLR with a decent buffer, and I think this would totally be possible for them to pull off. That is, if they actually wanted to.
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Recording raw to CF cards is not impossible. I remember the first RED ones recorded to a CF albeit a proprietary CF.
Last edited:
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
It has always seemed clear to me that at a pro level $10-15k that a camera could be constructed that is of two modules - the first being a pro stills cam (D4 standard) such would record stills in bursts (ie the normal 8fps + buffer) and H264 video, add the second module to record raw and offer SDI and XLR inputs
Say this was a nikon D4, 16mp and when in video mode it croped to S35 size, 8mp, it would seem that there would be no line skipping or the like - just simply taking a bunch of raw stills photos
I think this is how Jannard has always seen things 'I want a DSLR that does 24FPS' - I guess his early inspiration was from the stills cams he owned in the mid 2000s
Who could do this? Obviously Nikon - who would not be treading on their own toes (apart from the unknown relationship they have with Sony)
Such a camera could probably be an alexa smasher
S
Say this was a nikon D4, 16mp and when in video mode it croped to S35 size, 8mp, it would seem that there would be no line skipping or the like - just simply taking a bunch of raw stills photos
I think this is how Jannard has always seen things 'I want a DSLR that does 24FPS' - I guess his early inspiration was from the stills cams he owned in the mid 2000s
Who could do this? Obviously Nikon - who would not be treading on their own toes (apart from the unknown relationship they have with Sony)
Such a camera could probably be an alexa smasher
S
Bassman2003
Veteran
I agree. This is where the price/image quality barries are smashed. If you could take the RAW stills off of a lowly $500 T2i in a non-stop manner, the image quality of the video (including the ability to get the best out of RAW processing) would be right up there with the $50,000 "video" only cameras. We have this curtain which is withering away that divides still quality and video quality. Still quality has been up there for a while. Now that the still cameras are producing video the excuse for the difference in price to quality is wearing thin.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
Yeah, it truly is crazy how close these sensors could get to the big boys if they didn't have all the things holding them back. 8 bit outputs, limited codecs. The processing has evolved to the point where on the latest Nikon models...aliasing and moire is no longer a big problem.
The proof of how good the sensors are is evident while viewing timelapse video....they look spectacular. Then if you watch a video with both time lapse and regular video from the same camera....the difference is staggering.
The proof of how good the sensors are is evident while viewing timelapse video....they look spectacular. Then if you watch a video with both time lapse and regular video from the same camera....the difference is staggering.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Exactly. Timelapse is a great example. I shot a long timelapse with a 7D, processed all of the RAW files in Lightroom, output them as 1920x1080 jpegs and as you said, the video quality when I put it in Edius was astonishing compared to if I had shot pure video. We will get there someday though.