FS700 vs F5 is DR the same?

Osslund said:
As a sidenote I can't stop thinking of the FS-line and what will come.

July 2011 Sony FS100 released
June 2012 Sony FS700 released

By the look of it a new FS camera shouldn't be to far away since the FS700 is two years old this summer. Sony have released both cameras in the summer so I'm waiting until this August before going for the FS700. Something new might turn up!
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I think Sony wont release a new FS camera that replace fs700 in this year, for fs100 maybe yes. FS700 just give an upgrade and new package FS700U> FS700R/H. They won't be killing own customer by release it in short time, many fs700 + odyssey 7Q user will not be so happy if sony do so. Most fastest fs700 replace version will be next year, but even at 2016. But i would rather Sony take time to do some improvement before release it, like reduce the size of camera but still give powerful slow motion, internal 10bit, high iso performance and full sensor reading like a7s give. Or even wait brand new tech sensor to put into it.

So if August no release a replacement for fs700, you going to buy fs700? then i suggest you to buy now, because super low possibility in this year. I just bought mine too with odyssey 7Q, waiting my odyssey 7Q arrive within next 2 week.
 
as with every electronic device: buy now if you need it now. Wait if you don't need it.

As SONY announced a FW upgrade for the FS700 in fall I think we will see this camera quite for a while.
In the package with the 7Q you have: 4K RAW, 2K RAW, superb 10bit HD, slow motion up to 240fps, wide DR,
slog2, internal ND filters. Soon to come 4K 10bit ProRes.

What would you expect to be improved or added on a "new" model FS800 / X770?
Global shutter for sure not. SONY is charging for the upgrade of a F5 to a F55 sensor
the same over all price as for a F55. That means your ticket to SONY's global shutter world
is 22.000€ net plus VAT.
What would be realistic? Better form factor. Hopefully! Better viewfinder. But maybe also
no more viewfinder at all as at the F5/55? CFast 2.0 slot. Internal 4K recording on a XAVC
codec basis. That would be great but probably cannibalize the F5.

I understand that you might feel inconvenient buying a 20 month "old" camera model in this
fast changing digital times. From my side I did not see anything at NAB with a better value
for your money than the combo FS700/7Q. Coming from DSLR shooting the FS700 had
a very fast return of investment not considering the boost into a new dimension with the 7Q
 
As long as I still have my F3/FS100 I don't need to purchase another camera and that's where it's at. When I get one or both sold a new camera purchase is something to look into.

As far as the FS-line I think we've seen new cameras to fill gaps and I think there's room for both a camera in between the FS100 and FS700 and between the FS700 and F5. It's more likely to come something in between the FS100 and FS700 first. Since 2011 we now have global shutter, better processing, faster cards and a bunch of other new stuff to be incorporated into a new camera. Just look at the new 4k handycam cameras from Sony or the A7S.

Sony is pushing hard and have made how many new cameras since 2011? Well many to say the least.

Will it be this summer for a new FS or next? Maybe we'll even see something completely different with about the same features as the FS700/F5/FDR-AX1?
 
You know I have the same cameras as you.

Personally Id swap them for the 700 If I was working on drama or more high end - the DNG files are amazing.

But the DNG presents a huge data load - which my clients will not buy.

On that basis the choice is less clear cut.

the natty thing with the F5, is that is give 100mbs practical 1080 codec in a small no recorder package - that is perfect for my clients

But the image from the F3 and recorder is the same or better than that 100mbs f5 onboard.

So the only reason I would go from F3 to F5 is to make the package tidy and save 1kg on my shoulder - nice but not €12000 nice.

Of course the F5+R5 is far better - but 200% of Coin camera or 70% of Alexa when you buy enough media - that does not stack up to me..

Bottom line - I tested the the F5, know the 700 (before raw), and bought the F3 saving €10000 for other things - we just bought a 2kgenny and some dedo Led fresnel - these thing will open my shooting package wider than the F5.

S
 
The thing is I need to offer a cheaper alternative sometimes to my clients. A camera package that costs less. The F5 would be out of the question and sometimes even my F3 fully rigged is to costly. My FS100 fits in nicely for these occasions but I'd rather have a FS700 and use it bare bone for the budget shoots and fully rigged for the higher budget work. One camera offering the same core features but rigged with something like the 7Q I can deliver very high quality footage in the line with what can be done with F3/F5.

Up until last year I've work mostly with commercials but this year it will change and I will do more budget work like corporate videos. I have a pile of cash and lots of hardware to sell so a move to the FS700/7Q is all financed and make good sense, as long as I can get about the same high IQ as from my F3 and offer 4k or high fps to my clients. 10-bit s-log delivery have been very popular by all my clients but often I'm asked to do higher fps.
 
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Thanks Mitch. Have you enabled 1080p60 and/or 1080p30 RGB for the F3 as an option?

I'm just thinking of investing in the 7Q and use it with my F3 until I get it sold and move towards the FS700 later.
 
Osslund said:
Thanks Mitch. Have you enabled 1080p60 and/or 1080p30 RGB for the F3 as an option?

I'm just thinking of investing in the 7Q and use it with my F3 until I get it sold and move towards the FS700 later.
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We curently can record these signals as DPX files.
 
Osslund said:
As a sidenote I can't stop thinking of the FS-line and what will come.

July 2011 Sony FS100 released
June 2012 Sony FS700 released

By the look of it a new FS camera shouldn't be to far away since the FS700 is two years old this summer. Sony have released both cameras in the summer so I'm waiting until this August before going for the FS700. Something new might turn up!
Click to expand...

Given the recent AX100 (on-board 4K for $2K) and A7S Sony consumer releases, I suspect an internal recording 4K FS isn't far off.
 
Am I missing something, but where does it say the FS700 shares the same sensor as the F5? As far as I know, the F5 and f55 share the same sensor. A sensor that is not in the F3, nor FS700.
 
male_man said:
Am I missing something, but where does it say the FS700 shares the same sensor as the F5? As far as I know, the F5 and f55 share the same sensor. A sensor that is not in the F3, nor FS700.
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Nowhere, but it stands to reason given they seem to have identical specifications. The F55 vs F5 have a number of differences including the color filter array (CFA), rolling vs global shutter, and base ISO, and several tests I've seen seem to show different light response and DR between the F5 and F55. I have seen little evidence that the F5 and FS700 differ in any way but it is possible.

On the other hand, perhaps the F5 and F55 do have the same sensor electronics which supports rolling and global readout but rolling is implemented on the F5 and global on the F55. Global shutter on the same sensor usually results in a sensitivity loss, so the base ISO rating makes sense, and they could just have used a wider gamut CFA on the F55. In the end, though, how many aspects of a sensor do you have to change before it can be considered not the same sensor even if it may come off the same fab...
 
The F55 and F5 sensors i'm pretty sure are different, there's a different CFA on the 55 for starters for a different gamut, it's a global shutter (a sensor function) and i would expect the supporting electronics to be different for that reason too.

I think the general thought was that the FS700 is an earlier iteration of the F5 sensor, in the same way the FS100 was an earlier version of the F3.

In a comparison between the F5 and FS700 i think Alistair Chapman mentioned that the F5 was better in the shadows. Whether that's down to the sensor itself or the supporting electronics is difficult to say

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
The F55 and F5 sensors i'm pretty sure are different, there's a different CFA on the 55 for starters for a different gamut, it's a global shutter (a sensor function) and i would expect the supporting electronics to be different for that reason too.

I think the general thought was that the FS700 is an earlier iteration of the F5 sensor, in the same way the FS100 was an earlier version of the F3.

In a comparison between the F5 and FS700 i think Alistair Chapman mentioned that the F5 was better in the shadows. Whether that's down to the sensor itself or the supporting electronics is difficult to say

cheers
Paul
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It appears the f5 has different electronics behind the sensor compared to the f55. Also it appears the global shutter/sensor of the f55 comes as a modular unit.
 
male_man said:
I just looked at the specs on the Sony website. It appears the fs700, f5 and f55 sensors are similar in dimensions/photosites, however the fs700 yields 12 stops compared to 14 by the f5/55.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-h...html?PID=I:35mm_NEXFS700:NEXFS700#/fs700t1_14
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Yes but I would take any manufacturer's DR ratings, and even most independent user's findings, with a grain of salt. I have seen 14stops on the FS700, as have others. Whether they look the same as the F5's 14stops is not known to me. I have a friend down the street with an F5, maybe I'll get him to bring it over for a test against my FS700...
 
nyvz said:
Yes but I would take any manufacturer's DR ratings, and even most independent user's findings, with a grain of salt. I have seen 14stops on the FS700, as have others. Whether they look the same as the F5's 14stops is not known to me. I have a friend down the street with an F5, maybe I'll get him to bring it over for a test against my FS700...
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That would be a nice test!
 
I shot a bunch of stock footage today with my F3 and it was an eye opener. Blue sky with some clouds giving me a mixture of hard direct light and shadow areas rapidly changing and the DR from the F3 came out as insanely good. Compared to my FS100 it's way beyond in both DR and resolution. There's also some magic with the locked 5600k colour balance on the F3. It always comes out great with very little tweak and looks very natural.

As for exposure I experimented pushing it a bit and went past the 38/68% rule towards 80%. I figured I could risk a bit of compression in clouds to retain even more shadow detail and it worked great.

I've used my FS100 so much I almost forgot why I feel for the look of the F3.
 
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