FS700 vs F5 is DR the same?

A

Alpha Beta Omega

Veteran
As I believe the FS700 shares the same sensor as the one in the F5. Is there any difference in DR when both cameras shoot S-log2?
I know the internal recording on the F5 is so much more capable of handling S-log2 but with the FS700/7Q they look to be more equal.
 
Interesting test that CD(or shooters) should look into. Sure would sell a whole lot more 7Q's if it was proven =)
 
It's probably pretty close in DR. Might be a bad thing if it came out that they were equal, then Sony might go into locked down mode on the FS700 to prevent sales cuts into the F's. Then we might not get the compressed 4K RAW that Sony is denying us right now.

With that said, even if they had the same DR, the F5 is still a more professional camera as it's just so well made, well thought out and more robust IMO. FS700 has and still feels like a piecemeal camera that doesn't quit fit together. But damn, the image sure is nice with the 7Q and it's cheap for what you get.
 
gene_can_sing said:
It's probably pretty close in DR. Might be a bad thing if it came out that they were equal, then Sony might go into locked down mode on the FS700 to prevent sales cuts into the F's. Then we might not get the compressed 4K RAW that Sony is denying us right now.

With that said, even if they had the same DR, the F5 is still a more professional camera as it's just so well made, well thought out and more robust IMO. FS700 has and still feels like a piecemeal camera that doesn't quit fit together. But damn, the image sure is nice with the 7Q and it's cheap for what you get.
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I don't think Sony are worrying about the FS700 cutting into sales of the F5 - they're aimed at different markets. If anything the FS700+07Q is cutting into sales of the Black Magic and C100 (as they're aimed at similar markets) while the F5 is cutting into sales of the C300: sales of the F5 are going very very well from what I understand, loads of TV guys in the UK are getting them.
 
I would really like to see a comparison. Especially the 4k-> 1080p ProRes on the 7Q compared to internal recording on the F5.

The thing with the FS700 it's a small camera and can be used as is doing s-log2/cinegamma and high fps or paired with the 7Q for very high quality footage. For corporate work I see no reason to use a 7Q but for commercials and features the 7Q takes the FS700 to the next level.
 
Perhaps a bit OT, but relevant. Have you guys seen the specs for the newly announced BMD Ursa EF? It's a game changer...
1-Canon EF mount with electronic lens control
2-global shutter
3-12G-sdi
4-Full UHD
5-CinemaDNG or proRes
6-interchangeable SENSOR, 12-stops DR, 14 bit processing....actually the same super-35 sensor as used on their current cams
7-1/4 the cost of an F5

If BMD doesn't delay delivery, delivery is scheduled for July. Holey moley!!
 
cuervo said:
Perhaps a bit OT, but relevant. Have you guys seen the specs for the newly announced BMD Ursa EF? It's a game changer...
1-Canon EF mount with electronic lens control
2-global shutter
3-12G-sdi
4-Full UHD
5-CinemaDNG or proRes
6-interchangeable SENSOR, 12-stops DR, 14 bit processing....actually the same super-35 sensor as used on their current cams
7-1/4 the cost of an F5

If BMD doesn't delay delivery, delivery is scheduled for July. Holey moley!!
Click to expand...

Game changer? It's a BMPC with some extra I/O for twice the price.
 
It's nice but not a game changer (the game changed years ago). I don't think the sensor is very sensitive, perhaps the next generation one would be. Even so it seems like an interesting design approach and i hope they do mange to ship when they say - they really need that break. I think the CION sounds more interesting.

I'm not sure about the splitting sensor and hardware. It would work for a while a generation or so but long term the power and cost of hardware means that it will be woefully underpowered in a couple of years. Plus there's always issues with upcoming sensors that may need a hardware approach. Even Sony had to fix hardware to get the 4K out of the existing sensor. So this interchangeable sensor idea might not work that well in real life (unless they had the other sensors working now).

However right now i'm happy with the 700/O7Q still, NAB was a litmus test - would i be salivating over some new camera. Nope.

Well, aside from the A7s but i want it for stills...

cheers

Paul
 
cuervo said:
Perhaps a bit OT, but relevant. Have you guys seen the specs for the newly announced BMD Ursa EF? It's a game changer...
1-Canon EF mount with electronic lens control
2-global shutter
3-12G-sdi
4-Full UHD
5-CinemaDNG or proRes
6-interchangeable SENSOR, 12-stops DR, 14 bit processing....actually the same super-35 sensor as used on their current cams
7-1/4 the cost of an F5

If BMD doesn't delay delivery, delivery is scheduled for July. Holey moley!!
Click to expand...

well.. BMD changed the form factor and added some features but it seems they
continue their design policy at the surface than listening to user needs or ergonomics.
Did anybody notice they weight? 16.53lb / 7,5kgs without the V-Mount battery.
I guess a lot of will need new tripod and fluid heads.

What do they want to show us with these huge hypnotizing audio meters? Look, we have audio meters now?
I have strong doubts that the 10" display will be usefull in bright shooting conditions.
Did you see how many gaps the body has? Maybe it looks nice - but happy cleaning to all ACs
And actually it's still the same sensor out of the 4K BMPC pushed to 50/60p.
 
Certainly Sony knows if the DR is the same. The FS700 and F5 are so very different cameras so I don't think Sony wants to dumb down the FS700. That's the game Canon plays.
 
For narrative filmmaking (ie: I place skintone as top priority) the FS700R recording to the 7Q in RAW recording DNG files and processed via Adobe Camera Raw in After Effects beats the F5/R5 or F55/R5 combo in skintone and latitude. Shooting a feature film with anamorphic lenses now. Other productions, such as commercial, product, sports have different priorities and cameras better suited for the job, but for narrative work on a budget this combo is an indie production's dream machine. The critical part of the workflow is to NOT use Resolve to process the DNG files. Do that and you will muck up your color and lose 2 stops of highlight retention. Resolve is fine for CC but for processing DNG files one needs better control, and today ACR has the tools. Looking for another, perhaps more robust program to process camera raw files (like Canon RMF and ArriRAW) but haven't found it yet.

I don't worry about build quality as long as there is a warranty. The relevant lifespan of a camera these days is ridiculously short. Image quality, cost, usable feature sets- that's what is important because the landscape changes so often, and the price continues to fall.
 
Stuart Keasley said:
Eh? Did I miss something?
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As Mitch stated in another post, the 7Q is doing un-compressed RAW while the F5 / F55 are getting compressed RAW. The signal that the FS700 and F5 puts out is compressed 2.5x and due to LICENSING issues and obvious protection of the F5 / F55, Sony makes the 7Q uncompress the RAW and that is why the 7Q DNGs are 2.5x larger in file size than the RAW from the F5 / F55.

Mitch says they are in negations with Sony so we can tap the compressed RAW signal and therefore have much smaller file sizes and use the Sony RAW utility and avoid the tedious and inaccurate process of using Resolve (which does not like the current LUT) to transcode footage. It would definitely be a huge benefit working with the compressed signal and Sony RAW Utility vs. what we have now.

With that said, the current RAW is beautiful looking and Convergent did a great job, it's just huge in file size. And since it's dealing with Sony, I wouldn't hold my breath for the compressed signal since they do have to tier their cameras.
 
I think Convergent will eventually release a 4K 'popular codec' option. If it looks
anywhere close to as good as their 4K2HD 'popular codec' option, it will be a
smash hit. Yes, it won't be compressed Raw, but it should be pretty good!
 
To me the F5 is a great camera but it wont record 4k internally and it is larger, heavier and cost way more to get up and running than the FS700.
I could easily pack FS700, batteries and a couple of lenses in my backpack and still have room for my underwear when flying.

Eventually global shutter will be a standard feature and to get the F5 feels like a waste of money, if the FS700 can get me the same quality and most of the features of the F5.

I own F3/FS100 today and will miss a couple of features of the F3 but I'm enjoying the FS100 very much for it's portability and features.

The more I review the FS700 option the more sense it makes. Especially if I can get the same or higher quality out of the camera than F3/F5/FS100.
 
gene_can_sing said:
As Mitch stated in another post, the 7Q is doing un-compressed RAW while the F5 / F55 are getting compressed RAW. The signal that the FS700 and F5 puts out is compressed 2.5x and due to LICENSING issues and obvious protection of the F5 / F55, Sony makes the 7Q uncompress the RAW and that is why the 7Q DNGs are 2.5x larger in file size than the RAW from the F5 / F55.

Mitch says they are in negations with Sony so we can tap the compressed RAW signal and therefore have much smaller file sizes and use the Sony RAW utility and avoid the tedious and inaccurate process of using Resolve (which does not like the current LUT) to transcode footage. It would definitely be a huge benefit working with the compressed signal and Sony RAW Utility vs. what we have now.

With that said, the current RAW is beautiful looking and Convergent did a great job, it's just huge in file size. And since it's dealing with Sony, I wouldn't hold my breath for the compressed signal since they do have to tier their cameras.
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Yes, but then I later replied to that same thread noting that we had discussed this further with Sony engineers and discovered that the compression of the RAW on the FS700 is a bit different in structure to that of the F5/55, so it would not be possible for this idea to move forward. The compression structure is simply different, but effectively equal in quality.

We are working on another option for compressed RAW for sometime in the future.
 
As a sidenote I can't stop thinking of the FS-line and what will come.

July 2011 Sony FS100 released
June 2012 Sony FS700 released

By the look of it a new FS camera shouldn't be to far away since the FS700 is two years old this summer. Sony have released both cameras in the summer so I'm waiting until this August before going for the FS700. Something new might turn up!
 
Oss.

My take. Id buy the FS700 or the F55. I might rent the 5.

Overall if you can handle the data load I really think the 700/4k DNG processed right is 'all you could want'

S
 
Osslund said:
As a sidenote I can't stop thinking of the FS-line and what will come.

July 2011 Sony FS100 released
June 2012 Sony FS700 released

By the look of it a new FS camera shouldn't be to far away since the FS700 is two years old this summer. Sony have released both cameras in the summer so I'm waiting until this August before going for the FS700. Something new might turn up!
Click to expand...

There is always something new. something announced this summer will be likely released only in Q1 2015. Might be a sort of beta version given the history of F55 and F5 with only with partial release of all published functionalities in first release.

Do you really want to wait that long?

If you can do so, then you might have more other attractive options as well.

Sounds like rentals suit your line of work? Renting definitely suits those who want the latest and the greatest.
 
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