FS700 used prices. It's depressing.

bruceallen said:
TELL US MORE PLEASE, MITCH!

Thank you!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Not much more to tell at this juncture. The Odyssey7Q+ can currently record up to 30p in 4K. We hope to increase that and are working to see what we can do without compromising image quality. There are a lot of hoops to jump through so we don't know if we can until we try it and see. We're working on it.

Please note that the HDMI input on the Odyssey7Q+ (as it is on the competitor's product) is hardware-limited to 4K24p / UHD30p. That is a data throughput barrier that cannot be breached in firmware. If we are able to raise our recording speed capability it will be via SDI input, and then there would need to be a device that could accept that high data rate 4K or UHD HDMI signal and convert it to SDI. Currently no such device exists. So this is a more long-term thing, not a capability you're likely to see from anyone in the next few months. Not even in the first couple of weeks of April in Las Vegas.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Not much more to tell at this juncture. The Odyssey7Q+ can currently record up to 30p in 4K. We hope to increase that and are working to see what we can do without compromising image quality. There are a lot of hoops to jump through so we don't know if we can until we try it and see. We're working on it.

Please note that the HDMI input on the Odyssey7Q+ (as it is on the competitor's product) is hardware-limited to 4K24p / UHD30p. That is a data throughput barrier that cannot be breached in firmware. If we are able to raise our recording speed capability it will be via SDI input, and then there would need to be a device that could accept that high data rate 4K or UHD HDMI signal and convert it to SDI. Currently no such device exists. So this is a more long-term thing, not a capability you're likely to see from anyone in the next few months. Not even in the first couple of weeks of April in Las Vegas.
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Thank you, Mitch. I was hoping you and Sony were working on something fancy eg the A7s converts its frame buffer to UHD 4:2:0 8bit just before outputting to HDMI... and then sends the raw information values from that framebuffer as color info packed into standard HDMI 1.4-compliant 30p UHD 4:4:4 8bit frames.

I'm pretty sure the info would fit (3840x2160x4:2:0 x 60p = 3840x2160x4:4:4 x 30p)

If you looked at the HDMI output through a standard TV, you'd see a weird image... but a clever recorder (like yours) could read the original 4:2:0 info from the signal after it has been received by your HDMI 1.4 input and then re-assemble the frames?

With a Bayer sensor, I don't think you'd lose much going to 4:2:0.

Of course the A7s might simply not be able to handle the processing required due to its chip design.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
bruceallen said:
Thank you, Mitch. I was hoping you and Sony were working on something fancy eg the A7s converts its frame buffer to UHD 4:2:0 8bit just before outputting to HDMI... and then sends the raw information values from that framebuffer as color info packed into standard HDMI 1.4-compliant 30p UHD 4:4:4 8bit frames.

I'm pretty sure the info would fit (3840x2160x4:2:0 x 60p = 3840x2160x4:4:4 x 30p)

If you looked at the HDMI output through a standard TV, you'd see a weird image... but a clever recorder (like yours) could read the original 4:2:0 info from the signal after it has been received by your HDMI 1.4 input and then re-assemble the frames?

With a Bayer sensor, I don't think you'd lose much going to 4:2:0.

Of course the A7s might simply not be able to handle the processing required due to its chip design.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...
I can tell you with pretty high certainty that this would not be possible in the A7S. Such activity requires a lot more processing power than you might realize.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I can tell you with pretty high certainty that this would not be possible in the A7S. Such activity requires a lot more processing power than you might realize.
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Thank you, Mitch.

Uh, I did say "the A7s might simply not be able to handle the processing required due to its chip design." :)

But then again I never thought a Canon 5D would be able to store RAW video... and some hackers proved me wrong!

I wish Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, etc had the option to take the raw feed of the sensor, do absolutely nothing to it, and send it out as colored pixels through the HDMI - and then your Odyssey could decode and record it.

It'd basically be copying from one memory buffer to the other, in chunks that fit the individual HDMI out frames. They could even do high frame rates that way.

Of course, due to architectural limitations (maybe one bit of the chip handles the de-Bayer, another bit handles the HDMI out and they can't address each other's chunk of memory directly?), maybe the A7s, the GH4 and the NX1 can't do that. But then again... 5D Mk2 RAW video!

Sorry for distracting this from the FS700. I am way off topic.

I must admit I'm pretty interested in buying an FS700, partly for the 60fps RAW to Odyssey 7Q, hence my lurking on this thread.

Anyone want to point me to those $3000 - $4000 FS700 deals?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
bruceallen said:
Thank you, Mitch. I was hoping you and Sony were working on something fancy eg the A7s converts its frame buffer to UHD 4:2:0 8bit just before outputting to HDMI... and then sends the raw information values from that framebuffer as color info packed into standard HDMI 1.4-compliant 30p UHD 4:4:4 8bit frames.

I'm pretty sure the info would fit (3840x2160x4:2:0 x 60p = 3840x2160x4:4:4 x 30p)

If you looked at the HDMI output through a standard TV, you'd see a weird image... but a clever recorder (like yours) could read the original 4:2:0 info from the signal after it has been received by your HDMI 1.4 input and then re-assemble the frames?

With a Bayer sensor, I don't think you'd lose much going to 4:2:0.

Of course the A7s might simply not be able to handle the processing required due to its chip design.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

also slightly off topic - but it is interesting to note that the Apertus team are proposing something similar as a way of getting 4K Raw out of an HDMI 1.0 port (two actually). I'm trying to convince them to use a 1.4 port (mostly so they could do high speed - for the reasons you state above). I am holding out some hope that, at some point, they'll get CD interested in working with them on the recording for the camera - possibly in getting this high speed raw set up working...
 
Colinelves said:
also slightly off topic - but it is interesting to note that the Apertus team are proposing something similar as a way of getting 4K Raw out of an HDMI 1.0 port (two actually). I'm trying to convince them to use a 1.4 port (mostly so they could do high speed - for the reasons you state above). I am holding out some hope that, at some point, they'll get CD interested in working with them on the recording for the camera - possibly in getting this high speed raw set up working...
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We are in fact in discussions with Apertus. We have given them the specs by which they could best marry to our system.
 
And to think it only cost me 14k when I got it :\

Still think its one of the best cameras on the market when coupled with a 7Q ;)
 
Even when I move up, the FS700 will still make a heck of a backup camera. It's still a workhorse for corporate shoots. Also, I worked out a way to mount a A6300 or other smaller video camera on the top handle for auditorium shoots and such, and so I have two cameras on the same tripod pointed at the same thing, the smaller one wide and the FS700 on the close-ups. I've also mounted an a7RII on it, for a 4K second camera, so the client can use the 4K footage to zoom in on off-center parts of the image and still maintain HD resolution. And if a camera goes out, there's another one right there ready to go.

Most of the controls are out there on separate buttons, it can be adapted to 4K or left as a (big, awkward) point-and-shoot, it shoots great slo-mo, and despite the fact that I drool over the new stuff, I find that really like the look I get off of the FS700. As cheap as it would be to replace nowadays, I'm not afraid to use it for shoots near water, which I do a lot. I stick my Nikon 70-200 f2.8 on it with a 2x teleconverter and get some great wildlife shots (yes I use a lens support). I'm not afraid to loan it to my college-age kid for a project, and it gets lots of oohs and ahhs from her classmates.

In short, I can see it being useful for at least the next three years. I picked up an a7RII and the two cameras supplement each other.

My only concern is Sony repair, which I have not been having a good experience with in terms of the a7RII, and is the reason why many professionals are ditching Sony in a very public way, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apCc5JD4PYs.
 
Just received my FS700R with 440 hours, plus petrol rucksack, baseplate and lens support that I won for £1995 on ebay - a good 500-1000 than they usually seem to go for. It has a few usage marks but is in pretty good condition and works like a dream. Shot some footage of the kiddies last night, 5 minute grade and I couldn't be happier. I've bought it to hire out together with a Shogun Flame and 5 Samyang cinevised lenses, tripod, LED panels etc - basically an indie film maker shooting package in a bag (well, several bags) - but I'm certain I'll be shooting a lot of stuff with it for pleasure. It's just so easy after the rigging rigmarole of my GH4.
 
Tim Sewell said:
Just received my FS700R with 440 hours, plus petrol rucksack, baseplate and lens support that I won for £1995 on ebay - a good 500-1000 than they usually seem to go for. It has a few usage marks but is in pretty good condition and works like a dream. Shot some footage of the kiddies last night, 5 minute grade and I couldn't be happier. I've bought it to hire out together with a Shogun Flame and 5 Samyang cinevised lenses, tripod, LED panels etc - basically an indie film maker shooting package in a bag (well, several bags) - but I'm certain I'll be shooting a lot of stuff with it for pleasure. It's just so easy after the rigging rigmarole of my GH4.
Click to expand...

tim-

congrats on the fs700.

it is a camera that, in the right hands, can make lovely images.

if i may ask, won't you miss the much touted 4k image from the gh4?

(i ask in all sincerity with no snarkiness intended)

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
 
robfilms said:
if i may ask, won't you miss the much touted 4k image from the gh4?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I was recording downscaled onto a BMDVA anyway - I'm more concerned to get the fattest image I can. Have to say - the image on the FS700 is blowing me away; how people can say it's too video-y is a mystery to me. I've got an Atomos Shogun Flame arriving next week and that'll generally get downscaled too - not for fat file purposes but because I suspect my computer won't handle 4K 422 HQ!
 
The FS700 is totally still relevant and amazing when paired with the 7Q. Huge congrats on your guys purchases. I am still using it on larger projects. With these FS700 prices plummeting, I still am leaning toward just getting another FS700 to go with my other 7Q rather than going with an FS7...when the time comes, I'll make the final call.

I already posted this video and really don't mean to repeat content on this forum but I think it is relevant in defending it as a camera that can be used with confidence on professional shoots still today and for the next few years. About 30% of the shots in this were from an A7s on RONIN with 7Q+ but 70% was the FS700 with 7Q and I do like it's image more than the A7s, it grades best.

Burt Reynolds Introduces the NEW Bandit Trans Am
 
Still my fav camcorder. I paid £4,500 used three years ago. Am I depressed they go for under £2500 now ? not really because I genuinely haven't found a replacement for my FS700 three years later.

I'm waiting for a REAL replacement that does 240fps 4K.
 
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