FS700 - All Quiet on the Eastern Front?

Simon Shasha said:
Given that the FS700 is a little over three-weeks away from launch, I'm really surprised Sony hasn't released a new FS700 video composed of footage from a production model (could they still be working on it?), or given more details in regards to the 4K 12-bit RAW (possibly price-range, work-flow, etc). The curiosity is eating me up :)
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Was speaking to a rep at Sony about the upgrade, it is still on the drawing board. I think they are sizing up the market still, it is one of their trump cards up their sleeve so to speak.

I'm still waiting for confirmation about 1080p@8-bit 4:4:4 as well as S-Log. S-Log is confirmed as a future upgrade but the 1080p@8-bit 4:4:4 is unconfirmed as a launch item or as a packaged upgrade with S-Log and/or with 4K Raw firmware.

So if anything, Sony is waiting to see how the market shapes up in order to determine the value propositions of these future upgrades.

On the positive side, the FS700 is being positioned as a mini-F3. Great for indie guys.
 
ectobuilder said:
I'm still waiting for confirmation about 1080p@8-bit 4:4:4 as well as S-Log. S-Log is confirmed as a future upgrade but the 1080p@8-bit 4:4:4 is unconfirmed as a launch item or as a packaged upgrade with S-Log and/or with 4K Raw firmware.
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Where did you hear about S-Log? That's a major announcement that seems to have passed me by if true? I hope it is, it would make me a very happy person.

The FS100 has 8 bit 4:4:4 1080p out of it's HDMI, i'd expect the 700 to be the same out of it's 3GHDSDI (and HDMI). I have a blackmagic extreme hd card on its way to me, that will digitise 4:4:4 so i can actually test this out once i have it.

Does make me wonder where sony is going with the F3 line... Having Slog on the 700 would literally kill off any remote interest i would ever have on an F3. I wonder if the F5 (or F7) will have the 700 sensor in and optimised

Anyway, please let me know about the Slog bit, that's super interesting...

cheers
Paul
 
If the rumours of Slog are right then that would pitch the FS700 against the F3 and in which case may give you an idea of the impending cost of the 4K option.

FS700+RAW+SLog would clobber a lot Sony's higher end offerings so I'd be surprised if it wasn't eye wateringly expensive. Sony can go from Hero to Zero on the pricing of the 4k.
 
Nirv said:
If the rumours of Slog are right then that would pitch the FS700 against the F3 and in which case may give you an idea of the impending cost of the 4K option.
FS700+RAW+SLog would clobber a lot Sony's higher end offerings so I'd be surprised if it wasn't eye wateringly expensive. Sony can go from Hero to Zero on the pricing of the 4k.
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To be honest i'm not sure why they'd bother with Slog if the 4K is supposed to be RAW. Why complicate matters if you're going to allow the full sensor data...

Unless they'd have a mid range Slog 1080p solution and then a top of the range 4K RAW. I would have thought there would be a higher end F3 style 4 solution that would share the same recorder. A camera that's a little more robust and traditional in shape.

Of course i've not read anything or heard of any slog on the 700 anywhere else...

cheers
paul
 
You wouldn't have S-Log & RAW. Raw is well, raw. Raw information off the sensor, captured without processing it into an image. S-log comes later and could be applied after image acquisition. That is the advantage of raw.
 
Gman3k said:
You wouldn't have S-Log & RAW. Raw is well, raw. Raw information off the sensor, captured without processing it into an image. S-log comes later and could be applied after image acquisition. That is the advantage of raw.
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Why wouldn't you have Slog and RAW options in a recorder? It would be an incredibly flexible solution.

Not everyone wants to be ar$ed with RAW and may prefer a Slog ProRes type output instead.
 
That would make the recorder a lot more expensive. It would need to be capable of live rendering the 12 bit raw stream to 10 bit slog (prores /DnxHd whatever).
No, as long as the datarates are about redcode 8:1 or 10:1 it´s great.
But I bet -as you need a starting point to work with the raw files - there will be program to add the slog curve to the raw footage just like redcine-x with its selectable gammas like redlogfilm, redgamma3 etc.
 
Nirv said:
Why wouldn't you have Slog and RAW options in a recorder? It would be an incredibly flexible solution.
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I misunderstood you thought you meant S-low & raw at the same time, which is a redundant suggestion as I said. But I'm not sure s-log is that well suited to 8bit any way.. that flat of a gamma curve might leave footage prone to banding in the grade when pushed.
 
Gman3k said:
I misunderstood you thought you meant S-low & raw at the same time, which is a redundant suggestion as I said. But I'm not sure s-log is that well suited to 8bit any way.. that flat of a gamma curve might leave footage prone to banding in the grade when pushed.
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I was assuming that the recorder would take the RAW output and compress it to a 10 bit codec as there wouldn't be much point in SLog for the reasons you point out. Although Canon seem to do OK with Clog or whatever they call it. But hey, these are just rumours and probably way off.
 
This is how all good rumours start - we're talking about Slog and RAW as if they exist!

I would guess, if i was sony, that i'd have an 'SLOG like' 8 bit output via firmware as a mid ground upgrade. Then enable RAW with an external recorder for the high end. However originally this was noted down as 12bit RAW so it's pretty moot because i understand the AD to be at least 14 bits and some have even suggested they've seen 13 stops from the 700 which is beyond 12 bit RAW.

Some sanity from sony around now would be most welcome!

cheers
paul
 
FelixGER said:
He claims to have a production modelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDT6sfO1VIs
The end of the clip is most interessting. What do you guys see in those resolution charts?
Screenshot 1080p: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mi5tgd9u/fs700.jpg
And the new JVC 4K Camcorder downrezzed to 1080p: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/5qy2boq1/jvc.jpg
Edit: hmm, I see hot pixels in the higher framerates on the charts.
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I really don't see the point of judging res charts via youtube! You can see the youtube compression macro blocking everywhere even at 1080.

The stills look fine, the cameras are plenty sharp enough these days. What i do like is the highlight handling in the overexposed day. The skin seems controllable, no cyan. The transitions to overexposure are fine. Yellow t shirts remain some natural yellow as they blow. The columns don't have highlight halos. We have no idea of the PP so whatever it was was doing alright.

The FS100 is fine in daylight though too if controlled, but certainly there's nothing in the youtube video that i'd flag up as unusual.

cheers
Paul
 
Hi guys, I did that shot, and the point was that there is a noticable difference even on youtube. Not so much on 100 and 200 fps, even if some show there aswell, but worse on 400. Not much in real world shooting give the problem you see on charts so you will have to take that into the mix aswell... My personal conclusion is 100 and 200 are both fine/ok/good enough, and most times more then enough for human movement stuff. 400 I will only use on special occations and most likely on other things than human movement. But I would say that the difference on 400 fps is a bit to much for general use for me personally. My conclusion comes from pixelpeeping my JVC 24" HDSDI monitor and not the YT copy. I am also a reseller and the camera is already at enduser so for right now I can't do more tests.
 
I think the concern was not about what happens at 400 but what is the deal with the resolution at 25 fps...
Looked well below 1000 lines. Wuzzup widdat? lol...
 
The resolution at 25 fps is fine, at least on my HDSDI screen with my eyes. Dunno about numbers, but I have tested F3, C300, AF101 and FS100 to name a few. FS700 is ok when it comes to resolution.
 
OK. Mine is here at AbelCine Burbank. just wired the money should have it by tomorrow mid day...psyched!!
 
I have recived 1 out of 2
last week
and Brian Berkey from Berkey System is sending some prototype accessories for the FS700
i will give you some new as it goes.
 
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