FS7: FS7 Handgrip MOD to ARRI Standard - now available

[plasticam]

Moldcad, (Piotr?)

The release mechanism is a springed pawl and gear. The spring is greased sometimes, sometimes not. I suspect yours may be ungreased and found a place to bind. Or the pawl has lifted.
You could try to depress the release button all the way, half way, one third way, each time tapping the grip firmly on a thick soft covered book. Just a rapid tap. Not forceful but I would not be too concerned about a little force- it's pretty well made. Also try just working the gear from lock to lock like a car steering wheel. And depress the button randomly while exerting some mild force. You have atleast a shot at things remembering, or stumbling back into their groove.

It will be a simple fix - I can walk you through it if you want to disassemble. But you'd need to get past the epoxied screws.

 

[moldcad]

Thanks Caleb, I'll certainly try to follow your suggestions. And, I wouldn't like to go through disassembling - it could void my warranty, and in case I couldn't fix it myself, I'll certainly need it... Will keep you posted!

Piotr

 

[plasticam]

True dat Piotr. Work it both ways, give it a few taps and if it won't comply - pack it off to the mothership.

 

[moldcad]

Kaleb,

Would you mind asking you for a photo of the release innards? Cause you see, I'm not quite sure how to exert the "tapping the grip firmly on a thick soft covered book" you wrote about Which surface of the grip, in which direction? To make myself clear: it's not that I can only "depress the release button all the way, half way, one third way" - it is stuck at the very beginning, so I need a lot of force to depress it - but once it lets go it goes all the way in, and I can then rotate the grip. As long as I keep it depressed even so slightly, it doesn't stick - but once released, it will need force to get moved in again! TIA

Piotr

 

[plasticam]

Piotr
Retrofits don't require going inside the grip but a few weeks ago I had to go inside to check on exactly what you are asking about because the release button felt stiff. These are very firm buttons by design and what you are experiencing may just be the design itself? Any way here is a photo. The pawl is the hooked lever in foreground. The spring in BG is can be caught and "bent out of shape" but I doubt that occurred in your case. You can see the pawl arm has a fulcrum near it's center and continues back to the spring- right over which is the "release" button.




My guess would be the pawl arm is not fully seated on its registration pin and (just as a guess mind you!) a few taps/whacks on something firm but forgiving like a book could help seat it. Also as I said just working the drum fore and aft may help.

Here is another view from a grip I purchased and did a complete breakdown on for testing. Notice it is heavily greased whereas the first one is dry? There is some variation in production.




You see the spring better here.

This is obviously impossible to diagnose remotely - but before you lose kit to a repair - possibly a little seat of the pants engineering could help you out.

 

[moldcad]

Thanks Kaleb! Could you confirm me where exactly the release button is acting upon - I guess it must be in the spring axis, and pushing on the pawn from the left on your first picture, pressing the spring and withdrawing the other end of the pawl from the gear? It's more difficult to tell from your second pic, even though it indeed shows the spring more clearly...

 

[plasticam]

Welcome Piotr, The spring is pushing not pulling - yeah? It applies the force keeping the pawl engaged. Thumb pressure anywhere on the spring side of the pivot pin mashes the spring, lifting the pawl out of the gear teeth.

That pawl arm is kept seated (parrallel with teeth) on the pivot pin by a thin visor tab "preventer". If your button is catching or sticky I suspect the pawl is galling on the walls of the drum gear and not engaging gear teeth cleanly (in parrallel). My guess is that the pawl arm has gone akimbo on that pin.

The design of the preventer visor is "light". Meaning a stiff wind can rearrange it internally. You have not used your camera on a windy day I hope!

;-)

 

[plasticam]

Just to regenerate topic. This thread started out announcing Ben G's rosette jailbreak being available to all FS7 shooters: retrofit or DIY.
THEN a totally unexpected thing came out of the development. I figured a way to make the Crony.

Just look at it.



only .6 of an inch wide.
ratcheting brass M6 stud available in custom lengths and pitch (1/4 20 for FS700)
Retains full function of FS7's RELEASE button
Footprint free installation- no change to Sony grip, Crony uses existing Sony holes.
Stainless Steel ARRI rosette meshes with pro gear
milled unibody construction is super strong- lifetime gaurantee.

I just want everyone to see this thing. It's for real.
And stay tuned. Want to ANGLE your wrist in the exact amount you specify?
Anyone with a Crony will be able to order a new inexpensive part, easily user installed that let's you DIAL in your wrist angle.
intro part info will be posting here very soon.

 

[Mertzwiller]

Caleb, could you show us a picture of the Crony actually attached to a FS7. I'm having difficulty picturing the different ways it, and various other solutions you've come up with, can be mounted to the camera. I'm a potential buyer and have been following the thread for awhile, but am a little confused by the various solutions you've posted.

 

[plasticam]

Mertzwiller,

Good point. I shot a demo a few weeks back and it had tech problems with the lighting. Then NAB delayed everything.

So here is a rough demo I shot just to get something out there- it shows two FS7 handles being connnected in a yin yang. Just imagine the female grip is
any threaded M6 socket on the kit of your choice. It's just rosette to rosette meshing. (sounds so X rated! )

 

[plasticam]

Mertzwiller, Below is the post from Scott the shooter who originally emailed me asking to develop a solution for him. Good pictures of his set up with the female threaded Crony.
I've sold many of these (of both flavors) now to DVXers. Do I have to offer a bounty for some of you to post jpegs? C'mon guys show us what ya got! ;- )

After reading Ben Giles' description of taking the FS7 handgrip off the Sony arm, I contacted Caleb about helping me modify a rosette to work with it. He was game. I tried to remove the screws myself and failed. (I too, have no idea how you managed it, Ben.) Anyway, I took a leap of faith on Caleb (he promised to replace the entire handgrip if he wasn't able to take the screws out and finish the mod without damaging the grip!). I sent him the grip with the arm still attached. This first modification took a bit more work than he anticipated I think, but Caleb was good to his word and sent the fully modified grip back to me last week.

It's solid. The rotation works and the grip locks on the rosette as originally designed with the arm. Thank you, Caleb!

Here's my current setup:
View attachment 110815View attachment 110816View attachment 110817
Mounting the grip on the rod as close as possible to the camera. I replaced the ratcheting lever with a bolt to lock the rosette adapter onto the 15mm rod. (I don't use the ability to have the grip rotate to the side on the lateral axis.)


View attachment 110818
Rotate the handgrip with a touch of the button and the camera rests evenly on a flat surface. Cool, right?

___________________________________

I'm a little different than most FS7 users; I am not a shoulder-mount operator. I'm 6'3." With a camera on my shoulder I have to be in a crouch most of the time in order to have a proper angle on people. Thus, I like holding the camera down in front of me. This has made the FS7 grip position literally a real pain for me. The weight of the camera way out on the end of the arm is untenable for hand-holding; it creates tremendous "moment." I want to hold the camera from a grip as close to the Center of Gravity as I can get it.

Caleb is developing what looks like a promising solution that will enable the grip to mount directly off of the camera's rosette. This is close the camera's nominal CG. This simple design should be a strong and lightweight solution for most situations.
___________________________________



Scott B

 

[Mertzwiller]

Thanks, Caleb. I understand how the Crony and the FS7 fit together re: your video. I guess my real question is: which of the solutions you've posted on your website solves the problem of the FS7 being an unwieldy, supposedly shoulder-mountable camera which nevertheless manages to remain-- even when using 3rd party mounts such as the Zacuto, Tilta, or Chroziel, etc.-- an awkward, unbalanced, and uncomfortable camera to use on the shoulder In other words, if you ask the people who have bought your products what seems to be working best for them, is it attaching it to the side of the camera? Attaching it directly under the lens, attached between rods as you showed it awhile back? Using it with the clock arm? Which solution is making it possible to shoot with the FS7 comfortably for hours at a time in a R&G situation. Which solution gives you the true comfort and enjoyment of, say, an Aaton or even an old Panasonic ENG? Or does the basic construction and inherent unwieldiness of the FS7 make that kind of comfort pretty much unattainable?

(Sorry for so many words, but I don't have time to make it more concise. Edit deadline tomorrow.)

 

[broughtonfilm]

Thanks, Caleb. I understand how the Crony and the FS7 fit together re: your video. I guess my real question is: which of the solutions you've posted on your website solves the problem of the FS7 being an unwieldy, supposedly shoulder-mountable camera which nevertheless manages to remain-- even when using 3rd party mounts such as the Zacuto, Tilta, or Chroziel, etc.-- an awkward, unbalanced, and uncomfortable camera to use on the shoulder In other words, if you ask the people who have bought your products what seems to be working best for them, is it attaching it to the side of the camera? Attaching it directly under the lens, attached between rods as you showed it awhile back? Using it with the clock arm? Which solution is making it possible to shoot with the FS7 comfortably for hours at a time in a R&G situation. Which solution gives you the true comfort and enjoyment of, say, an Aaton or even an old Panasonic ENG? Or does the basic construction and inherent unwieldiness of the FS7 make that kind of comfort pretty much unattainable?

(Sorry for so many words, but I don't have time to make it more concise. Edit deadline tomorrow.)

It just gives you more options to customize your rig to fit your needs , it does not fully change the camera's ergonomics magically. It won't operate the camera for you either, sorry. If this and endless other available solutions are not good enough to make the camera acceptably comfortable to work with, you should consider hiring a camera operator and stick with editing.

 

[Mertzwiller]

It just gives you more options to customize your rig to fit your needs , it does not fully change the camera's ergonomics magically. It won't operate the camera for you either, sorry. If this and endless other available solutions are not good enough to make the camera acceptably comfortable to work with, you should consider hiring a camera operator and stick with editing.

Broughtonfilm:

So you’re saying it won’t magically operate the camera for me? Bummer.

Meanwhile, I ran across one of your other quotes in this very forum: “Why always such condescending tone? Where are all the assumptions from?” You might want to ask those questions of yourself, amigo. I’ve made a pretty good living as an independent filmmaker and hired gun for more years than I care to remember, sometimes as cameraman, editor, producer, director, in every combination or all the above.

In regards to his FS7 handgrip modifications, Caleb’s ingenuity and skills-- and the fact that he is a working cameraman--have caught my attention in recent months. If I could walk into his shop in New Orleans and try out his various fixes hands-on, I’d do so in a heartbeat and no doubt get my answers, put in my order and leave a happy man. Unfortunately, I live far away from the land of Po’Boys, so must rely on photos, videos and previous customers’ testimonials for decisions such as this. Capiche?

 

[plasticam]

Mertzwiller,

I had a shoot yesterday so I'm just getting back to this. Thanks for your interest- appreciate it.
What I'm hearing you say is ok I "get" the Crony grip jailbreak, but what next. You want more than a cool
procedure, you want an overall answer.

I think I have one, it's the same solution functionally Ive been doing for 4 years but in a new way for less money.
I hope to be showing it in 2 stages over the next couple weeks. I got something coming.

The Crony retrofit really IS the answer tho- you have to meet that threshhold for what I've got or any other company. It's the only way to add to the mix. The rest is up to you. I hear your question - what is the best overall approach to get this FS7 on my shoulder. But it's a tough one. I could protect myself and obfuscate with questions about your particular shooting style, preferences for palm up/down, elbow in and all that- and its all fair to ask, because of the first law of thermo-cinematics:

1. No two shooters agree on anything.

I could give you what I think is darn good advise on how to improve your FS7. I'd prob say "Rigged" cameras are only for forum porn, you need it pared down and balanced. We'd talk about the industry and how the explosion of people calling themselves DP's with nice little cameras has ushered in a commodity explosion of accessory manufacturers who make commodity based products to exploit the market. They make a product because other companies make it and they want to be a one stop shop. They make it becasue they think it will sell.

I bought one of those products 5 years ago and got so mad, i literally started a company to fight the encroaching dumb. Building crap with no design at all and just flinging sh_t into the universe. But I'm tiny and work with a tiny R&R budget. Luckily new approaches are seldom linked to fat accounts!

So then after we had that talk in my awesome Nola camera tool shop and settled everything, pretty much every other cameraman would disagree with every other word I said. And they'd be right. For themselves anyway. Fortunately for you Mertzwiller there is the 2nd law of Thermo-Cinematics

2. All shooters agree the Aaton is the ideal handholding camera
An answer does exist that works for almost everyone.
(Note the 3rd law is that all shooters love to ***** and pontificate, you have to really watch out for that one)

So you really do need to retrofit/standardize your grip if you shoot much handheld. What's next is personal but there is a science to it. EWhic is why we have the laws ;-) I'd pay attention to what Ben Giles did in his original thread. he knew exactly what he wanted and found the shortest distance between two points.

Here's an offer I can make to help you out. I can add an M6 threaded rosette to your existing Sony Extension arm which is a $55 price. I'll make that $35, my cost, for the next couple weeks. So a full sevice Crony retrofit WITH extrra rosette on arm is $210. That way for $35 you can start experimenting with solutions while preserving your existing function. This might really be worth it because you can return anything you buy these days - so especially if you're not in NY or LA you can start trying out kit and dialing in exactly what works for you.

The new product I'm working on this week will be a single "Clock like arm" that is also a "Dovetail plate Lite." Together these two currently cost about $700. I'm combining their results for under $200. ok? The idea here is for a functional workhorse arm. Not a fancy gizmo. A tool not a rig. And yes it will sit on flat surfaces. For casing you pull a pin like a handgrenade. Boom

 

[Mertzwiller]

Thanks for your lively and helpful insights, Caleb. I follow your thinking and agree with it. Your offer is attractive. I’m on a shoot today and tomorrow, but will get back to you on Thursday. Meanwhile, I look forward to learning more about your new product, as well.

 

[plasticam]

I made a brass adaptor plate in my shop yesterday that is potentially good news for FS7 shooters



With this plate the FS7 can now accept the same Crony I make for the FS5 which uses a full size rosette (32mm). That extra 4mm (over the FS7 28mm) gives enough expanded orbit to fit a thumb wheel.

So I gasket your grip, Install the brass plate with the new larger size Crony and you have a working professional grip. ($145 Crony, $45 brass plate)







I can add an M6 threaded rosette onto your Sony arm if you want to retain that function $55


It's a known issue that detaching (jailbreaking) the FS7 Grip from the Sony EXT arm can lead to stripped screws. I have helped a lot of shooters by offering an inhouse retrofit service with a 5 day turnaround including shipping both ways which works well. But if you like I can send you the correct screw driver and directions for DIY jailbreaking of the grip and arm. The screwdriver costs about $10 so I can just pass that along as a flat charge. If you already have separated your grip the entire part is orderable here -https://www.facebook.com/commerce/products/1170882402958424/ and
attaches in less that five mins.

The brass plate is also available at the above linked address, I just added it so the link is not live yet.