FS7 and the 7Q

gene_can_sing said:
So to get RAW out of the F7S, you need to buy the back unit (expensive) and then also have a second recorder like the R5 or the 7Q? Then you would also need the big Brick battery on the end to power the unit? That's 3 big add ons.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you want to use the R5, I believe you need:

  • The FS7
  • The FS7 adapter pack, which gives you the raw FS data stream over SDI
  • The HXR-IFR5-adapter, which converts the SDI to the R5's format and provides record controls
  • The R5
  • The big brick battery
So I think for the FS7, the 7Q is looking like a much simpler, lighter option to get raw -- just as with the FS700.
 
I love the fact that there is a dedicated RAW output. I currently have to run a cable out to the 7Q and then back to my EVF... Kind of a lame extra step when you want the monitor 10-20+ feet away.
 
QQuestions for Mitch

1) With the FS7, will we be able to see camera info (ISO, F-Stop, shutter, etc) without recording it? More like an overlay? On the FS700 it's easy because the top LCD is out of the way and a quick glance with the info while the 7Q is clean, but if I'm using the FS7 and the 7Q, I'm not going to want both the 7Q and the EVF, only the 7Q to keep the camera more balanced and lighter. Basically having the 7Q as an EVF replacement, but with the camera info.

2) just using the 7Q as an EVF substitute (not for recording), can it then just go into the SDI plug on the camera? Or does it need the back unit just for monitoring as well?

3) is there no chance for the 7Q to just record from the on-board SDI plug? God knows that would keep the camera small and light. The back unit kind of screws up the whole "Small and light" marketing that Sony is pushing so hard.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
QQuestions for Mitch

1) With the FS7, will we be able to see camera info (ISO, F-Stop, shutter, etc) without recording it? More like an overlay? On the FS700 it's easy because the top LCD is out of the way and a quick glance with the info while the 7Q is clean, but if I'm using the FS7 and the 7Q, I'm not going to want both the 7Q and the EVF, only the 7Q to keep the camera more balanced and lighter. Basically having the 7Q as an EVF replacement, but with the camera info.

2) just using the 7Q as an EVF substitute (not for recording), can it then just go into the SDI plug on the camera? Or does it need the back unit just for monitoring as well?

3) is there no chance for the 7Q to just record from the on-board SDI plug? God knows that would keep the camera small and light. The back unit kind of screws up the whole "Small and light" marketing that Sony is pushing so hard.
Click to expand...
I'm totally making assumptions here, but I'm assuming the standard SDI output on the FS7 (without the "Extension unit") would output at least 10-bit 1080p. Any word if it does 4K out? Either way, you should be able to record this signal straight into the 7Q's standard ProRes recording (not the FS700 RAW input mode). As long as you're not needing RAW, this would keep your rig the lightest.
 
gene_can_sing said:
QQuestions for Mitch

1) With the FS7, will we be able to see camera info (ISO, F-Stop, shutter, etc) without recording it? More like an overlay? On the FS700 it's easy because the top LCD is out of the way and a quick glance with the info while the 7Q is clean, but if I'm using the FS7 and the 7Q, I'm not going to want both the 7Q and the EVF, only the 7Q to keep the camera more balanced and lighter. Basically having the 7Q as an EVF replacement, but with the camera info.

2) just using the 7Q as an EVF substitute (not for recording), can it then just go into the SDI plug on the camera? Or does it need the back unit just for monitoring as well?

3) is there no chance for the 7Q to just record from the on-board SDI plug? God knows that would keep the camera small and light. The back unit kind of screws up the whole "Small and light" marketing that Sony is pushing so hard.
Click to expand...

In addition to the RAW output on the accessory back, the FS7 has two additional SDI outputs and an HDMI output. The two SDI outputs are only HD, one of which is always a clean feed and the other can switch on and off viewfinder display overlays. The HDMI output is capable of UHD output, but in a truncated color space and bit depth.

Currently we cannot capture RAW while viewing a different video feed (HD image with overlays) on the OLED screen. But it is something we have discussed in the past and are technically capable of doing. The FS7 brings that discussion to the table again. If we do make this happen it will not be implemented for many months at this point.

You can always switch your Odyssey7Q to accept an HD video signal, at which point it can function for you as a viewfinder. If you record from the regular SDI outputs you will be recording HD.

It will be possible in the near future to record the HDMI output, but then you are throwing away the vast majority of information in your signal.
 
Hi Mitch,

Thanks for your time as usual.

Not having access to FS7 camera info would really limit the 7Qs usefulness as a monitor + recorder. I know you can just use the stock EVF and rig the 7Q on the side or back and only use it as a recorder, but that's such a waste of a great monitor and it just makes the camera so much larger and off balance. Plus, I prefer using the 7Q as a monitor over an EVF in all situations except bright daylight.

Is there anyway you can work with Sony and come up with a way to temporarily show the camera data, maybe only when a button is held down and then vanishes when the button is released so the 7Q can get a clean recording?

I can't remember exactly how it was, but when I used to use my Small HD DP6, there's a weird step you have to set up in the menu to have the camera info on permanently. If don't do this step, I seem to remember holding down the "Marker" button would bring up camera info temporarily, but would vanish as soon as you let go of the button for a clean screen. Probably a Sony oversight, but something like that would solve the camera info / clean screen dilemma.

Seems like Convergent would want to make the 7Q work with the FS7 as well as possible since that's going to be the new market. I don't believe for a minute that Sony is going to keep the FS700 around. Remember when the F5 came out Sony said repeatedly that the F3 will still be in the line-up and supported. That only lasted for a few months and then the F3 was done.
 
Or as an alternative Mitch, can the 7Q pull the F7S video feed from the camera SDI into SDI-B so we can see the camera info (iso, shutter, etc..) while the RAW is being recorded into SDI-A from back unit? This is probably too complex and require an extra cable, but just a thought.
 
Hi Mitch, Is there any likelihood of you guys developing a recorder-only product, something with similar functionality to the R5, but without the bulk?
 
Looking at the FS7, there seems to be several 1/4 20 mounting points around the handle. Maybe we can mount the small, stock EVF in one of those or even on the hotshot for the camera info and have the 7Q in the main EVF area. Or maybe just flip the EVF to the other side (right side) of the 15mm rod and have the 7Q on the left side.

I'm sure Convergent will figure out something clever.
 
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It has been in our planned specs for some time to have a way to record a clean feed while monitoring a different one. As to when we will be able to enable this functionality is a different question. It is not something to enter into lightly, as it can easily trip up the end user and the wrong signal gets recorded.

It would certainly involve taking multiple feeds from the camera, so multiple cables. But that's not really such a big deal.
 
Hi Gene, Mitch, everyone.

Having manipulated the FS7 during the past 5 days at IBC, I can assure you that you will not be able to live without the LCD EVF.

First it's the most pratical way to go through the menu, who is basically the same as the F5/55.

It's not that cumbersome but the arm mount is wobbly so maybe a 3rd party top handle and EVF mount can cure this weak point of the FS7.

You can strip it down by removing the loupe if it's too much in the way so in the end it looks more like a control monitor. Not so big I should add, because the screen in itself is quite small.

Personally, I think it's nice if Convergent Design can implement the feature Gene's want, but it's so much more complicated than simply using the built-in monitor as intended.

But again, you will all come to the same conclusion after using the camera a bit.
 
Perhaps you can answer a question that no one else seems to know or is able to check (and one I can't shut up about on the boards...): does the shutter speed get wonky when changing frame rates? Can you select shutter angle as an option, and if so, does it stay relative to the current frame rate like cameras are supposed to?
 
Hi Gene, Mitch and every one,

Just got the Fs7, extension Unit and 7Q hook together.

I just now can record up to 60 fps at Full HD via the SDI cable on FS7.

It seems that to record Raw signal I have to plug SDI to extension unit ? Any setting I have to follow on Fs7 to get the 7Q to record ?

Thanks,

Cuong
 
Taycuphach said:
Hi Gene, Mitch and every one,

Just got the Fs7, extension Unit and 7Q hook together.

I just now can record up to 60 fps at Full HD via the SDI cable on FS7.

It seems that to record Raw signal I have to plug SDI to extension unit ? Any setting I have to follow on Fs7 to get the 7Q to record ?

Thanks,

Cuong
Click to expand...

Connect the SDI to the RAW OUT on the extension unit, go into the camera menu and set the Codec to RAW or RAW+XAVC. Then put the Odyssey7Q into "RAW -> RAW" or "RAW -> ProRes" mode (under the FS7 camera option). As of right now, there is a bit of a curve issue with the 7Q processing the RAW into ProRes, causing it to get a bit more contrasty than it should be. I haven't shot with this mode (aside from tests) yet... I'm just waiting for that to get fixed. From what I've heard, it's not the end of the world, you can still correct it fine, but I'd rather have it be correct before kicking off a project with it.
 
jshbckr said:
I haven't shot with this mode (aside from tests) yet... I'm just waiting for that to get fixed. From what I've heard, it's not the end of the world, you can still correct it fine, but I'd rather have it be correct before kicking off a project with it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Mitch says they are working to fix this. IMO, seeing the before and after pics that several have posted, it's not something that I would want to use at this point. Far more contrasty than S-Log. Please fix this soon as my 7Q is dying to be used properly on the FS7.

Definitely hope they are pushing it towards the CineEI / S-Gamut3.Cine / Slog3 settings. Those are the only filmic settings on the FS7 (and it looks great) which is where I would be using the 7Q. For all the lower end broadcast crap, they barely care what the image looks like, so no need for the 7Q in that arena as it just adds camera weight.
 
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