FS5: FS5 II rumored with global shutter

Donny 123 said:
all Im saying is . who or why would 99% of the average users .. even of F55,s actually need global shutter..
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Anybody who works in weddings/events/concerts (which is a big part of the FS5 target market), where there are flash guns going off constantly. Global shutter can be the difference between looking natural or looking like a 2 year old has been through your film canisters with a pair of scissors.

Also anybody who shoots wildlife or outdoors stuff, particularly with long lenses, and will have to battle a fierce wind occasionally in order to get the shot. Global shutter means that wind jitters can be very cleanly removed in post, and save shots that no tripod or IS system could've fixed alone.

For the same reason, anybody shooting with handheld with cinema lenses (particularly lighter primes), which lack IS, will find global shutter allows them to rescue more shots that might have otherwise been left on the cutting room floor.

I'd even argue that a lower end camera like the FS5 has a higher need for global shutter than an F55, as the F55 will be used on higher budget productions where more of the variables are controlled to some degree. Maybe you can live with rolling shutter, but that doesn't mean that 99% of us can - or should, if there is an alternative.
 
I don't encounter this often but understand your concerns. Didn't Sony create a post fix for the flash bulb problem? I seem to recall reading that awhile ago but never have needed to test it. Maybe I imagined it?
 
deltoidjohn said:
Anybody who works in weddings/events/concerts (which is a big part of the FS5 target market), where there are flash guns going off constantly. Global shutter can be the difference between looking natural or looking like a 2 year old has been through your film canisters with a pair of scissors.

Also anybody who shoots wildlife or outdoors stuff, particularly with long lenses, and will have to battle a fierce wind occasionally in order to get the shot. Global shutter means that wind jitters can be very cleanly removed in post, and save shots that no tripod or IS system could've fixed alone.

For the same reason, anybody shooting with handheld with cinema lenses (particularly lighter primes), which lack IS, will find global shutter allows them to rescue more shots that might have otherwise been left on the cutting room floor.

I'd even argue that a lower end camera like the FS5 has a higher need for global shutter than an F55, as the F55 will be used on higher budget productions where more of the variables are controlled to some degree. Maybe you can live with rolling shutter, but that doesn't mean that 99% of us can - or should, if there is an alternative.
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People shooting with cinema lenses are not worried about IS..no cine lenses ,even the lighter ones ? have it....Ive never heard of people losing shots due to a lack of global shutter which enable them to be saved in post ?.. shoot 4K to stabilize your shots in post is the usual way..how many handheld shots are you doing that are unusable due to a lack of GS..??? sure if they make it an option why not.. but as I said .. all the above you mention is already shot ,without any problems on rolling shutter camera,s .. from Alexa Studio massive hollywood films .. to weddings shot on Fs5,s.. even flash banding these days is a non issue .. audiences have seen it so many times now its become "OK".. and you wonder now why it was even a big deal in the first place.. it has its uses I know.. but not really any that you list above ..
 
It has already been shown that global shutter can cost less than one f-stop of light sensitivity --- at least if Sony makes it. And that's with five-year-old technology.

Global shutter is good for: flashbulbs, dance strobes, lightning, guitar strings, baseball and golf swings, passing cars, passing posts, passing trains, whip pans, propellers and fans.

Rolling shutter is fine. You can make money with it, we get it. Many people won't notice, we get it!

But if it's okay to pine away for 4K --- when the same thing can be said, that it isn't necessary --- or even 8K? --- I think it's okay to request global shutter. I think it makes more of a difference, more of the time, than 4K. I think the thought of my images being misshapen bothers me more than than a stop less of sensitivity.
 
GH5 has some sort of a rolling shutter correction built in. From a Matt Fraser clip, a whip pan correction seemed to work pretty well.
 
combatentropy said:
It has already been shown that global shutter can cost less than one f-stop of light sensitivity --- at least if Sony makes it. And that's with five-year-old technology.

Global shutter is good for: flashbulbs, dance strobes, lightning, guitar strings, baseball and golf swings, passing cars, passing posts, passing trains, whip pans, propellers and fans.

Rolling shutter is fine. You can make money with it, we get it. Many people won't notice, we get it!

But if it's okay to pine away for 4K --- when the same thing can be said, that it isn't necessary --- or even 8K? --- I think it's okay to request global shutter. I think it makes more of a difference, more of the time, than 4K. I think the thought of my images being misshapen bothers me more than than a stop less of sensitivity.
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Ive never lost a days work for not having global shutter... but I would have missed literally months worth by not having 4K.. not really a good comparison .. but we are on the same page.. if it offered yes sure fine.. but its needed alot less thees days with high refresh rate..
 
Video rolling shutter is a product of progressive scan line by line read out. Very different effect than a film camera rolling shutter or a still camera focal plane shutter.
Global shutter is very high on my list of preferred digital camera features. Just below a critically matched OLPF to minimize aliasing.
 
Film shutter will give you rolling shutter effect.. still camera focal plane shutter..?.. eh..I wont go there.. :) the only really bad rolling shutter these days is DSLR,s what skip lines in video mode.. thees are not video camera,s..with the exception of F65,s and Alexa Studio,s.. all those other big budget productions.. commercials and doc,s etc.. 90% of the high end market are shot with digital sensor Non GS camera,s.. controlled lighting has nothing to do with it.. but talking about going round in circles.. Im not saying GS is rubbish and a waste of time.. just to say its less of a problem with the high refresh rates of "decent" video camera,s these days.. to say you need GS for stable shots ..or to save HH shots is way out there.. or to compare it to a 4K capable camera ?..
 
Well the 'rolling shutter' on film cameras with a spinning butterfly mirror looks different that what you see with a CMOS sensor. Andi it's nowhere as severe as what you get with a digital sensor.

I agree that nowadays rolling shutter CMOS with a high speed readout is not much of an issue for dramatic work. But if you're u are shooting erratic high speed movement or strobes, etc. it's definitely there. That said it's even an issue on cameras like the Alexa or RED when shooting action scenes that are really kinetic. You'll see some pretty bizarre blur and distortion in those plates and it doesn't help if you need to do a 3D track for vfx work.

Anyhow while it's a desirable feature and I wouldn't mind seeing a global shutter on the FS5 / FS7 it's not a show stopper for me personally.

At this point I'd rather have the lockable e-mount so my lenses stay in focus and 16bit linear color like the has F5 / F55 to combat banding in the shadows.
 
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combatentropy said:
Film cameras do not have any rolling shutter artifacts, nor do mechanical shutters in general. This was shown, for example, in Zacuto's Great Camera Shootout 2011 (5:35, 7:00)
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I've seen it on film cameras, but it's minimal in the far corners and you really have to stick the camera in a paint mixer on a roller coaster to cause it. So, you're right. Technically speaking it exists, but for film cameras it's essentially a non issue.
 
Its a rolling shutter.. thats a fact .. in some situations you will see it..whip pans for one.. to say there are non is just empirically wrong .. how do you thing a mechanical shutter works then..? Canon putting video into a stills camera really does have all to answer for :)

I,d sell my camera for one with variable ND way before GS..
 
Empirically, film has a global shutter just like the few global-shutter videocameras tested alongside it in the video I linked to above.

It's not a rolling shutter in the way that CMOS is a rolling shutter. It is rolling over a different axis. And no, it will not show up in whip pans.
 
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well you,ll get so much motion blur anyway .. .. but it is rolling shutter.. again Im not arguing that GS is some unless feature.. JUST that it isnt a deal breaker in 99% of the average jobbing DP for hire.. and many many programs with flash bulbs and fast cars ,strobes what ever you want.. have been shot without them.. and looked very good .. and 99% of all films are shot with out GS.. as are 99% of everything else..

I rest my case ..
 
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