FS5: FS5 4K vs FullHD

Y

yoclay

Veteran
As we all know, there have been a lot of issues with the FS5 in 4K.
I am not sure how well 1.11 has dealt with these or if other issues have cropped up as a result.
However, my question is, when shooting standard frame rates (internal) I have noticed a lot of noise still creeps up in both SLOG 2 & 3, even when overexposing a stop or two.
Would I have a more solid image (less noise) if I shot in 4K and dropped it on a 10 bit FullHD timeline as opposed to shooting in 10bit Full HD for 25p?
I know this to be very true for the A7SII for instance.
How does the color compare as well? Anyone made the comparison?
 
You obviously dont have a FS5 or you would do the test.

In theory it should work the same as the a7s etc. I mostly shoot Slog2 as its less noisy and less flat than Slog3.

If i get time today I might just do the test for you :)
 
BeeHop said:
You obviously dont have a FS5 or you would do the test.

In theory it should work the same as the a7s etc. I mostly shoot Slog2 as its less noisy and less flat than Slog3.

If i get time today I might just do the test for you :)
Click to expand...

I am under such a heavy production schedule, I don't even have time to do a proper test.
I am assuming that it should work like the A7SII, but don't really know for sure.

A test would be greatly appreciated.

The SLOG2 vs SLOG3 thing is tricky.
Still not sure which I prefer.
However, if I treat them like my F3/original SLOG and assume they are 800iso instead of 3200, they both clean up nicely.
In fact I have even found this true of the A7S/II which is 1600iso normally..
 
Come to a conclusion? Have a few shoots coming up and planning on shooting HD for the 10 bit and slo mo but I remember there were issues with the HD before. I am assuming they were fixed with the 1.11 patch though.
 
Been busy in an edit.

I haven't been shooting 4K i always shoot HD 10bit :)

Image issues been fixed in firmware.

Firmware V2 is out now too.
 
BeeHop said:
Been busy in an edit.

I haven't been shooting 4K i always shoot HD 10bit :)

Image issues been fixed in firmware.

Firmware V2 is out now too.
Click to expand...

I came to some conclusions as I tested 4 cameras with my favorite subject - myself - seated in a chair and looking like an idiot.

My tests were exhaustive. F3; FS5, A7SII and another camera which I will mention later. I shot SLOG2 and SLOG3 with SGamut3.Cine. I underexposed and overexposed put to about 2 stops difference.

Let it suffice to say that I now think FullHD on the A7S looks like garbage. It is only when you shoot 4K and downscale on a 10bit timeline the you have a fighting chance. The FS5 looks more neutral with less color "splotchiness" - meaning we do not have the idea that we are looking at an impressionistic painting, however the 4K downscaled was also noticeably enough better that it was obvious this was the way to go.

However, there are some caveats. I feel there is a strange kind of "gauziness" to the image of the FS5. It doesn't look that sharp. I feel pretty sure this is do to the compression and only RAW can probably save its butt. However, good luck with shooting an external recorder in 4K, because you will lose your VF screen when you record. Really the dumbest crap ever from Sony. FURTHER, the punch in focus on the handle - Its so soft that you think you are out of focus! I was like whats wrong with my lens! Then I zoomed in with the lens (Cooke 20-100) - everything fine. Really Sony blew it big time with this camera. By the way if you output to an Atoms in Prorres422HQ while shooting internally, you will discover the external output is pure garbage as well. Not worth the time. Tons of noise.

Now a word for my old Sony F3. Guess what? Absolutely on par with these newer cameras in terms of image quality - even with the downscaled 4K from them. So, if you are planning on switching from an F3 to one of them, you should know that there is so little difference in either DR, sharpness or color quality that I would just save my money for a better camera - at least an FS7.

Lastly, to my eye the most pleasing camera by far with an image right out of the box? My Canon 5D MarkIII with Magic Lantern hack in RAW! Believe it or not. Wow! Far better colors (which makes sense since it is 14 bit), nicer acuity and cleaner "grain". You really have to work hard on the Sony Color to get it even close (I shot with 3 charts DSC OneShot, X-Rite Color Checker and SpyderChekr and it was still a hassle).

So, there you have it.

Oh and by the way Slo-mo above 100fps on the FS5 is not worth the time of day - WAY too much noise.
 
Well of course the mk3 Magic Lantern is still producing a great image. The problem is it isn't a video camera so I only use it on exteriors.

So far I haven't had any problems with the noise in a 120fps HD clip on the fs5. Doing a night shoot tonight so well see if my mind changes.
 
yoclay said:
I came to some conclusions as I tested 4 cameras with my favorite subject - myself - seated in a chair and looking like an idiot.

My tests were exhaustive. F3; FS5, A7SII and another camera which I will mention later. I shot SLOG2 and SLOG3 with SGamut3.Cine. I underexposed and overexposed put to about 2 stops difference.

Let it suffice to say that I now think FullHD on the A7S looks like garbage. It is only when you shoot 4K and downscale on a 10bit timeline the you have a fighting chance. The FS5 looks more neutral with less color "splotchiness" - meaning we do not have the idea that we are looking at an impressionistic painting, however the 4K downscaled was also noticeably enough better that it was obvious this was the way to go.

However, there are some caveats. I feel there is a strange kind of "gauziness" to the image of the FS5. It doesn't look that sharp. I feel pretty sure this is do to the compression and only RAW can probably save its butt. However, good luck with shooting an external recorder in 4K, because you will lose your VF screen when you record. Really the dumbest crap ever from Sony. FURTHER, the punch in focus on the handle - Its so soft that you think you are out of focus! I was like whats wrong with my lens! Then I zoomed in with the lens (Cooke 20-100) - everything fine. Really Sony blew it big time with this camera. By the way if you output to an Atoms in Prorres422HQ while shooting internally, you will discover the external output is pure garbage as well. Not worth the time. Tons of noise.

Now a word for my old Sony F3. Guess what? Absolutely on par with these newer cameras in terms of image quality - even with the downscaled 4K from them. So, if you are planning on switching from an F3 to one of them, you should know that there is so little difference in either DR, sharpness or color quality that I would just save my money for a better camera - at least an FS7.

Lastly, to my eye the most pleasing camera by far with an image right out of the box? My Canon 5D MarkIII with Magic Lantern hack in RAW! Believe it or not. Wow! Far better colors (which makes sense since it is 14 bit), nicer acuity and cleaner "grain". You really have to work hard on the Sony Color to get it even close (I shot with 3 charts DSC OneShot, X-Rite Color Checker and SpyderChekr and it was still a hassle).

So, there you have it.

Oh and by the way Slo-mo above 100fps on the FS5 is not worth the time of day - WAY too much noise.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info regarding your tests :)

. Yea A7S is much much better downscaled 4K.

. Ive been quite happy with the sharpness of my FS5. I don't like very sharp images as it feels very shall I say cautiously 'videoish' to me.
When i shoot in Slog2 I actually use a rec709 matrix like Pro instead of SGamut3.Cine. I then leave my sharpness at 0. I think SGamut3.Cine is -7 detail.

. Interesting to know about the output noise to ProRes HQ via Atomos.

. Yep i too like the look of the F3, and I actually prefer its older Slog curve than Slog2 & 3. ;)

. Its subjective but i much prefer Canons colour over Sony.

. Hmm not sure i agree that shooting above 100fps on the FS5 is not worth the time of day. Try it in Cine4 of u feel Slog3 is too noisy. Making sure your gain is set to 0db.

.Would love to see the video if u did one? :)

:happy:
 
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