FS100: Petition to Sony

moldcad

moldcad

Veteran
I've been reading about the FS100, watching the first videos, considering all pros and cons - and even though I do know what mattebox is for and that screw-on filters exist - I still would like to articulate this once again:

- Dear Sony,

Before you start actual production of this little marvel, please redesign the front barrel of the camera (leaving the rear boxy body intact), and incorporate the proper ND filtering for us. If the filter wheel fits between the S35 imager and the lens mount flange on the F3, it will certainly fit into the FS100 as well - the space is just 2 mm shorter! All that is needed is some more place around this areas for the wheel mechanism itself, so making the front barrel bigger would certainty suffice.

If you do that, you will show that you are really listening to your customers, and will make us very happy. The FS100 is all about controllable DOF, but also about compactness and ability to go places no fully-blown rig would be allowed. It's all about changing fast prime lenses frequently, while keeping the aperture wide open.

While using alternative ways of ND filtering is certainly viable - no matter how we look at it, it partially denies all the above features and virtues. Also, controlling the light by increasing shutter speed is not practical, as the FS100 is a movie camera, and movies cannot be filmed with varying shutter speeds...

Please, give us internal ND filter! Please allow us to be creative without so much hassle!

With due respect,

Piotr Wozniacki

PS. Dear fellow users of this great forum, please add your comments to this thread so it grows and hopefully gets through to Sony. At the same time, if some of you are of opposite opinion - please refrain from teaching us how to use our mattebixes, cross-polarizing variable ND filters, etc; not in this thread - please :)
 
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Too late. The camera is way into producttion stage for a redign like that.

"If the filter wheel fits between the S35 imager and the lens mount flange on the F3, it will certainly fit into the FS100 as well "

No, FS100 has an E-mount. F3 is PL mount.
 
Is it the mount depth that's the problem? I thought it was the tiny physical box dimensions of the FS100 itself that was the issue with not being able to mount a filter wheel in there. The AF100 and the FS100 have about the same depth and it wasn't a problem for the AF100 to fit a filter wheel, but with the FS100 the sensor is bigger yet the mouth of the body is narrower. So you'd need larger filters, and there really isn't anyplace for the wheel to rotate within the body. Surely that's the issue? And if so, there's no way they could just add a millimeter or two, they'd have to make a large front section that has room for the filters to slide into and out of position.
 
Kudos on your letter to Sony, But like evilthought said, way to late for that, this would have needed to be addressed long ago. For all we know that space is used for electronics that can't be moved on a moments notice. Better yet , and at this point. The letter may be better if it reads like this.

"Dear sony,
seeing is you feel ND filters are not a crucial component to this amazing camera, It would be well recieved if you added a set of 4x4 ND filters to the Camera kit. By doing so, your consumers can use the s35 sensor for it's intended purpose. "SHALLOW DOF" Im sure you can incorporate this to the package easier than reconfiguring the front end. And by doing so, it will send the message, that Sony does want feeback and input from it's customers.
Respectfully, your eagerly waiting consumers.
 
In spirit, I agree that for a camera as sensitive as this, and for it's intended purpose it should have ND's included - but I do think that we're too late in the game for Sony to re-design this model. However.... threads like this and others are important for letting manufacturers know what we the customers feel are valuable features.
For instance....Sony's high end consumer cams now feature 24P and manual controls. They can't include everything people want, but if it makes economic sense and a good percentage of customers are asking for a certain feature ...I believe these companies will listen. (It just takes a while sometimes)
 
You forget that the camera partially designed with the input of several "high profile" DSLR shooters. Nuff said.
 
If it came down to small form factor versus ND filters, I would take small form factor every time. I've got an adjustable screw on ND filter that works perfectly and takes about 5 seconds to get on or off.
 
JCummings said:
You forget that the camera partially designed with the input of several "high profile" DSLR shooters. Nuff said.
Click to expand...

Den Lennie was one of those consulted for the design of the FS100. He has a background in TV news, so he knows the importance of ND filters. From what he says, he recommended Sony include it in the camera.
I guess we can debate on the merit of excluding ND filters, but Sony does know a thing or two about building video cameras.

That said - I do want ND filters!
 
Sony please include 24p and 60p in pal version camera,otherwise please include a cinema mod for that purpose ,and one more thing is switchable to 50mhz and 60mhz.......make it FS-100 an Universal camera............thanks
 
An ND filter quite simply won't fit in the form factor of the NEX-FS100. Putting an ND filter wheel in a large sensor S35 camera is a very different situation then say a 1/3" sensored camera.

For comparison, below is a ND filter wheel of the AF100, as the S35 sensor filter wheel would need to be a little larger, as you can tell the NEX-FS100 would require a lot more vertical space above the sensor; its not about focal flange distance (which the E-mount has a 18mms compared to the 20mms of the μFT)

ndfilter.jpg


There is no space to put this within the NEX-FS100
NEX-FS100_1_S1.jpg


While I'm not sure if the NEX FS100 can pull gain setting below the F3s minimum to achieve lower ISOs, more generally it means you'll need to use ND filters that dSLR users are familiar with. Otherwise the AF100 serves as a viable option if ND filters are a big deal in your purchasing decision.
 
Right, it's not the flange focal distance. It's the size of the neck that limits inclusion of a filter wheel. Confirmed by a Sony Rep that this is the reason.

You'll have to pile on the NDs - the only solution in daylight. ND9, ND1.2 and combos thereof. Oh well.
 
jonatha said:
Sony please include 24p and 60p in pal version camera,otherwise please include a cinema mod for that purpose ,and one more thing is switchable to 50mhz and 60mhz.......make it FS-100 an Universal camera............thanks
Click to expand...

While this does not affect me personally, at this time, I do think that not making the camera "Universal" was a serious oversight.
 
jonatha said:
Sony please include 24p and 60p in pal version camera,otherwise please include a cinema mod for that purpose ,and one more thing is switchable to 50mhz and 60mhz.......make it FS-100 an Universal camera............thanks
Click to expand...
David G. Smith said:
While this does not affect me personally, at this time, I do think that not making the camera "Universal" was a serious oversight.
Click to expand...

Yes - no 24P in the UK/Europe/PAL version is madness. S35 sensor at this price is a massive draw to many, but a region specific camera without 24P will cause many to think twice (myself included).
 
Steve Castle said:
There is no space to put this within the NEX-FS100
NEX-FS100_1_S1.jpg
Click to expand...

As I said in my OP of this thread, it's enough to redesign just the front barrel of the camera. Even if it takes 3 months longer waiting, I'd wait happily...

PS Oh, and one more thing: my main profession is mechanical CAD/CAM/CAE, and I can assure everyone here that - once the right decision is taken - with modern inter-disciplinary workflow, redesigning and manufacturing new tools (like injection molds, etc) could be done in a much shorter time than 3 months. And the stake for Sony is great - without such a basic feature on the FS100, Sony will be losing sales not to their own F3, but to the Panasonic's AF100. Especially if it turns out that what BBC is saying about the actual pixel count on the S35 chip is true...
 
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I believe you at what your saying. The one thing I dont agree with, as I have worked for large corporations in the past. It takes forever to get decisions made. Especially if there's a board to go in front of. Then to implement those decisions can take even longer.
 
Excellent point - that's why it would be great to make the effort required for conveying the message to Sony decision-makers ASAP. The message being that they're going to shoot their foot!
 
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