Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
Hm, so it is even 500$ more expensive than the Firestore...
fs-100 shipping?
- Thread starter klausvelka
- Start date
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
The firestore is £1449 plus VAT, not the P2 store.
I was originally going the way of the firestore myself but its too expensive and a couple of 4 gig cards and an OTG enclosure should be fine for me for a while.
I was originally going the way of the firestore myself but its too expensive and a couple of 4 gig cards and an OTG enclosure should be fine for me for a while.
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
Ah. So how much is the P2 Store? I go with the notebook solution. The Investment is even lower, and with external Firewire drives you can add hours of recording time for little money.
P2 store is costing me £930 + VAT, the same price as an 8gb card over here.
If you go with the notebook solution just remember that you won't be able to be as mobile as you would with any of the other recording solutions. I think for any future purchasers of the HVX, they should really factor in the price of P2 cards as part of the camera. It's like driving a car without wheels, you can't. It was made to work with P2 - that's why I think the Cineporter would be much better than the Firestore.
If you go with the notebook solution just remember that you won't be able to be as mobile as you would with any of the other recording solutions. I think for any future purchasers of the HVX, they should really factor in the price of P2 cards as part of the camera. It's like driving a car without wheels, you can't. It was made to work with P2 - that's why I think the Cineporter would be much better than the Firestore.
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Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
booth said:
Just because of the native recording? And it does not help if other solutions are more mobile if they either are not available or you have to change and dump every 4 Minutes. And I did not buy a 6000$ camera to only record barely half the resolution just because the manufacturer screwed the storage solution up. And you have to remember, that the notebook and NLE will be used anyway. But with two cards and a P2 Store, they will be obsolete in a few months, and your 1000 to 2000 bucks go to hell, as nobody wants them for a reasonable price.
Heck, Panasonic should have gone with a harddisk solution, and we would have 5 hours of recording time, but nooo...
Pascal why would you be recording half resolution?
In my opinion the storage solution isn't screwed up, my 2 8gb cards are great and I only have to offload every 15/16 minutes (720pn & DVCPro50). I admit that when the 32gb cards are with us it'll be more than great it'll be fantastic. But I'd try out the P2 cards before proclaiming they've screwed up the storage solution - for me it's perfectly adequate.
As for saying that the 1000 to 2000 bucks go to hell. With my work the cards will pay for themselves, they are perfect for event coverage and perfect for filmmaking. If I was recording a concert I'd just pass the cost of another P2 store onto the client - and depending on the job more cards. If they want more than 2 hours of HD, they're going to have to pay for it. Before I purchased the cards I took a look at the work I've been doing over the past 6 years and found that I've never had cause to shoot more than four 1 hour tapes in a single day - and that was only once. If that situation arose again, like I said I'd pass the cost of the extra storage onto the client - but to be honest that particular job could have easily had cards offloaded to a laptop with the P2 store there for security, because it was more like filmmaking. So I can't envisage, over the next twelve months me needing, for event coverage, more than my HVX, a tripod, 2 8gb cards, a P2 store and my laptop (with external drives - which I already have many). Delivery is on DVD, so no need for DVCPro50/HD backups - or if the client wishes, HD WMV files burned to DVD-R's.
My only problem is getting the MXF's to work with Avid.
In my opinion the storage solution isn't screwed up, my 2 8gb cards are great and I only have to offload every 15/16 minutes (720pn & DVCPro50). I admit that when the 32gb cards are with us it'll be more than great it'll be fantastic. But I'd try out the P2 cards before proclaiming they've screwed up the storage solution - for me it's perfectly adequate.
As for saying that the 1000 to 2000 bucks go to hell. With my work the cards will pay for themselves, they are perfect for event coverage and perfect for filmmaking. If I was recording a concert I'd just pass the cost of another P2 store onto the client - and depending on the job more cards. If they want more than 2 hours of HD, they're going to have to pay for it. Before I purchased the cards I took a look at the work I've been doing over the past 6 years and found that I've never had cause to shoot more than four 1 hour tapes in a single day - and that was only once. If that situation arose again, like I said I'd pass the cost of the extra storage onto the client - but to be honest that particular job could have easily had cards offloaded to a laptop with the P2 store there for security, because it was more like filmmaking. So I can't envisage, over the next twelve months me needing, for event coverage, more than my HVX, a tripod, 2 8gb cards, a P2 store and my laptop (with external drives - which I already have many). Delivery is on DVD, so no need for DVCPro50/HD backups - or if the client wishes, HD WMV files burned to DVD-R's.
My only problem is getting the MXF's to work with Avid.
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You might want to check this out, someone on this thread details their problems with Firestore devices:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63852
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=63852
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
booth said:
You do it too, to cram 10 Minutes of footage in native mode on a 4 Gig card. And my other Problem is also, that I have no source for P2 cards except those expensive ones from ebay. And I'm no going to buy two 4 Gig cards for the price of a full fledged Core Duo notebook. Plus P2 Store.
Green Hornet
Veteran
I am not saying it is impossible, but.....
I am not saying it is impossible, but.....
The external hard drive systems sounds really nice, but I really have a hard time believing it can be a reliable solution for many years. Perhaps with SD, but with HD, you really really really need a whole lot of bandwidth to SUSTAIN that type of data. Even if you do manage to get that worked out, then you have to worrry about cooling everything down. YOu have to worry about the hard drive creating heat inside a casing that also holds the hard drive controller/processor. You have to keep the controller cool, or it will stop transfering, and or shut down/reboot.
How can that be done inside a small enclosure?
I don't think it can be done to the point I could trust it reliably.
If it can, then my hats off to you.
To put it in perspective, just look at any listed minimum specifications for 1080p footage. The hardware mentioned is most likely bordering on the top of the line computer available as a minimum.
Myself and others have tried just transfering 1080p footage around on super fast systems with the largest busses, buffers, and the fastest available hard drive available. The results are dissapointing. The thought of having a controller that can ingest 1080p footage constantly to a hard drive that is encased in the same shell, just seems undoable to me. DOn't get me wrong, I would love this, I just don't see the likelyhood of it being a reliable system, especially one that can be portable and run on batteries. Wouldn't this thing just eat batteries (hard drive, controller, cooling system)?
Maybe they should look into having the controller outside of the hard drive case, sort of like a laptop power supply.
HVX200 --> Firewire --> controller--> firewire---> to hard drive.
Maybe that would keep the controller cool.
Just remember if the controller gets too hot, the device will lock up.
Just my view...prove me wrong, and I will get one.
I am not saying it is impossible, but.....
booth said:
The external hard drive systems sounds really nice, but I really have a hard time believing it can be a reliable solution for many years. Perhaps with SD, but with HD, you really really really need a whole lot of bandwidth to SUSTAIN that type of data. Even if you do manage to get that worked out, then you have to worrry about cooling everything down. YOu have to worry about the hard drive creating heat inside a casing that also holds the hard drive controller/processor. You have to keep the controller cool, or it will stop transfering, and or shut down/reboot.
How can that be done inside a small enclosure?
I don't think it can be done to the point I could trust it reliably.
If it can, then my hats off to you.
To put it in perspective, just look at any listed minimum specifications for 1080p footage. The hardware mentioned is most likely bordering on the top of the line computer available as a minimum.
Myself and others have tried just transfering 1080p footage around on super fast systems with the largest busses, buffers, and the fastest available hard drive available. The results are dissapointing. The thought of having a controller that can ingest 1080p footage constantly to a hard drive that is encased in the same shell, just seems undoable to me. DOn't get me wrong, I would love this, I just don't see the likelyhood of it being a reliable system, especially one that can be portable and run on batteries. Wouldn't this thing just eat batteries (hard drive, controller, cooling system)?
Maybe they should look into having the controller outside of the hard drive case, sort of like a laptop power supply.
HVX200 --> Firewire --> controller--> firewire---> to hard drive.
Maybe that would keep the controller cool.
Just remember if the controller gets too hot, the device will lock up.
Just my view...prove me wrong, and I will get one.
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
booth said:
I know what pn and p is, I was talking about 720p/n with less than a million and 1080p with over two million pixels resolution. Edius can also record native, but is it possible to record 1080pn? Or does this mode not exist?
The mode does not exist, and there's a marginal difference between the 720p/ 720pn and 1080i modes IMO, certainly not two million pixels worth of difference.
It's not like the difference between DV25 and 720p.
If I could ask. What is wrong with the 720p mode? Varicam users are more than happy with it. It looks great, perfect to cover a concert. If I had the option sure I'd shoot 1080i, but only for something shot for the big-screen.
And you can't shoot variable frame rates with 1080i.
It's not like the difference between DV25 and 720p.
If I could ask. What is wrong with the 720p mode? Varicam users are more than happy with it. It looks great, perfect to cover a concert. If I had the option sure I'd shoot 1080i, but only for something shot for the big-screen.
And you can't shoot variable frame rates with 1080i.
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
booth said:
Sure there is a big difference. There are three chips, and Panasonic has an advanced pixelshift technology. And as I said, I did not pay 6000$ to use half of the resolution.
By the way, do I need 2 Gigs of RAM in my notbook for Canopus Broadcast? As this would be a plus of about 400 bucks.
esperman
Well-known member
Well.....to my eyes on a full REZ CRT monitor....our consensous was to shoot
720pn becuase the difference bewteen 720 and 1080 didn't seem that much. Sure wasn't 2X the rez..and we saved alot of space on the card.
Is 10% more REZ worth the extra space and a 60i 24P stream most can't yet edit anyways.
720pn becuase the difference bewteen 720 and 1080 didn't seem that much. Sure wasn't 2X the rez..and we saved alot of space on the card.
Is 10% more REZ worth the extra space and a 60i 24P stream most can't yet edit anyways.
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
I suppose there is more than 10% resolution advantage. Jan?
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
I suppose 1080p WMV with low compression, as it otherwise just uses to much space. But will WMV also conserve the higher color space?
I think to make any real judgements about resolution of 1080 vs. 720 you need to use a projector - I ran my 720P footage on a DLP projector and the you could really see what was going on in the image - as opposed to my PVM20L5 - which is great for color correcting - or my Apple Cinema 30"
Projectors rule!!!!
Projectors rule!!!!
Green Hornet
Veteran
Pascal_Parvex said:
I edit on a laptop with only 1 gig of ram with canopus broadcast.
I would say it would be better to have more video card ram, than ram over a gig.