FS-100 Picture Profiles

with the tools i use for gradeing there's a choice that most edit systems don't offer, i can chose to work in;
444 and no gamma correction
444 with a number of input LUT's (REC709, REDlog, ARRI, PrintDensity clamped and unclamped, on and on)
422 with REC709 as the input LUT... this is what most edit systems offer & usualy the only thing on offer

But bringing in my FS100 footage into a 444 project with no input LUT resualts in a super-flat image to start from

I can get to about the same place by using a reverse LUT (LIN to LOG) inside a 422 project, to undo the REC709 input LUT that's a part of the REC709 standard

You might want to test that .. the footage is a ton flatter than you think if you can only get to it without the REC709 LUT applied

Oh and the "Technicolor look" from AbleCine is my clear fav when used with the corosponding LUT to unfold it, but you have to be in linear first or you will be applying both a 709 LUT and then on top of it a Technicolor LUT.. that's pretty useless

The noticable thing with the AbleCine "Tech Look" is how the skys shifted from cyan on all the other "looks", to a sweet fluffy blue...

I do run the saturation up a bit from where they put it, that's becuase i find it even more difficult to pull clean secondaries off de-saturated footage, it's already hard enough with such compressed footage, so why add even more grief to the process?

I do understand the concept of not clipping a colour channel - but de-sat'n to such an extent just brings in it's own issues

My starting point is the AbleCine TechLook with sat up a bit

d/
 
Dermot said:
with the tools i use for gradeing there's a choice that most edit systems don't offer, i can chose to work in;


But bringing in my FS100 footage into a 444 project with no input LUT resualts in a super-flat image to start from

I can get to about the same place by using a reverse LUT (LIN to LOG) inside a 422 project, to undo the REC709 input LUT that's a part of the REC709 standard

You might want to test that .. the footage is a ton flatter than you think if you can only get to it without the REC709 LUT applied

Oh and the "Technicolor look" from AbleCine is my clear fav when used with the corosponding LUT to unfold it, but you have to be in linear first or you will be applying both a 709 LUT and then on top of it a Technicolor LUT.. that's pretty useless


d/
Click to expand...
Holy moley! Thanx for this. I had tried the Technicolor LUT in After Effects on the AbelCine profile and was getting a ton of hi contrast results. Setting the footage to linear light solved that problem. I like the results. And, as you observed, a tad bit of additional saturation is needed. I also run a higher black gamma setting than abelcine recommended. It really does help protecting those shadows when grading the overall image.
 
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As you can see in the video, signal-to-noise ratio is the same, regardless of black level setting. It doesn't matter if we have black level @ +15 or -15, the shadow information stays the same.

So black level -15 is the way to go. (at least with standard-gamma which I was testing above).
 
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Just want to share that grab from a production we wrapped today.
Shot with AbelCine "Varicam" PP
Glass: Rokinor/Samyang 85mm/1,4

Programm.Still001.jpg

Gotta love that camera.

Frank
 
Dermot said:
with the tools i use for gradeing there's a choice that most edit systems don't offer, i can chose to work in;
444 and no gamma correction
444 with a number of input LUT's (REC709, REDlog, ARRI, PrintDensity clamped and unclamped, on and on)
422 with REC709 as the input LUT... this is what most edit systems offer & usualy the only thing on offer

But bringing in my FS100 footage into a 444 project with no input LUT resualts in a super-flat image to start from

I can get to about the same place by using a reverse LUT (LIN to LOG) inside a 422 project, to undo the REC709 input LUT that's a part of the REC709 standard

You might want to test that .. the footage is a ton flatter than you think if you can only get to it without the REC709 LUT applied

Oh and the "Technicolor look" from AbleCine is my clear fav when used with the corosponding LUT to unfold it, but you have to be in linear first or you will be applying both a 709 LUT and then on top of it a Technicolor LUT.. that's pretty useless

The noticable thing with the AbleCine "Tech Look" is how the skys shifted from cyan on all the other "looks", to a sweet fluffy blue...

I do run the saturation up a bit from where they put it, that's becuase i find it even more difficult to pull clean secondaries off de-saturated footage, it's already hard enough with such compressed footage, so why add even more grief to the process?

I do understand the concept of not clipping a colour channel - but de-sat'n to such an extent just brings in it's own issues

My starting point is the AbleCine TechLook with sat up a bit

d/
Click to expand...

So what is your setting for saturation?
 
Got my fs100 today, and so far I am liking the look of this picture profile:


That would be AbelCine Cinetone1.
 
Postmaster said:
F
If you have to adjust your highlights to bring them down to a useful level, with the negative black settings, you will crush your shadows to a state, where you are not able, to recover detail in post .
So if you have to you use something like +6 on your blacks, to compress them back in the 8 bit room.

Frank
Click to expand...

Okay, I take everything back and stand corrected. Forget what I said.

After some more extensive testing and endless waveform gazing, here is my (hopefully last) PP receipt:

I ended up using two different PPs most of the time now.

One has the knee set all the way up to blow highlights if I want, and one has the knee to 75%


GlenColor1 highlights protected:

Black Level: variable
Gamma: CinemaTone2
Black Gamma: Range = High / Level = +7
Knee: Point = 75% / Slope = 0
Color Mode: Type = CinemaTone2 / Level =8
Color Level: 0
Color Phase: +1
Color Depth: R=-2, G=-6, B=-7, C=0, M=+2, Y=+5
WB Shift = All 0
Detail = Level = +1 / Manual Set = Off

GlenColor2 highlights blowout allowed.

Black Level: variable
Gamma: CinemaTone2
Black Gamma: Range = High / Level = +7
Knee: Point = 102.5% / Slope = -1
Color Mode: Type = CinemaTone2 / Level =8
Color Level: 0
Color Phase: +1
Color Depth: R=-2, G=-6, B=-7, C=0, M=+2, Y=+5
WB Shift = All 0
Detail = Level = +1 / Manual Set = Off

What I do is:

1. Dialing in my DOF for the scene.
2. Correct the highlights with an variable ND
3. bring the black levels to zero via the "Black Level" PP setting.

Number 3 is a bit awkward and time consuming, but the only way, to use as much of the 8 bit room as possible.
Believe me, it´s worth the fiddling in the menu. (for fast jobs or run&gun, I use one of the other presets, depending on if they go trough post or not.)

My further workflow goes like this:

Convert everything to Cineform (Film)
Drop them all in Premiere and start editing.
When I´m happy with the edit, I open first light and do the
primary CC in FirstLight - set "Linear" on in and output - maybe also apply a look (LUT) there.
If something special is needed, I also use Magic Bullet or Mojo in Premiere on top of everything.

I´m also experimenting with an extremely flat look - that can use the s-log LUT,
but I´m not there yet, and I`m not sure if that ever really works or even make sense.

Frank
 
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Overall I tried to get in the neighborhood of the Canon 5D MKII Technicolor Picture Style, but with some more color.
Charts, vectorscope/waveform monitor, tweaking, trial and error and a free weekend :cheesy:

Frank
 
I use Knee at 75 with +3 slope. O slope clips the highlights too quickly for me.I also use black level at high range set to +15. I understand the logic of filling the 8 bit bucket, but lifting blacks using range high lifts more than just blacks, it lifts the entire shadow range almost to the mids. There is a great advantage to this in post grading because it's very easy to use LIFT in CineForm to move the darkest blacks down to zero while leaving a tremendous amount of noiseless shadow detail. Also, since AVCHD puts most of it's detail in mids and highs, with low detail in darks, it seems to make the most sense to give the codec as few blacks as possible and replacing them in post.
 
gianx80 said:
I'm a newbie, so could you please explain to me what does the quoted sentence exactly mean?
Click to expand...

Go into the picture profile on the camera (located on the left hand side interface through the button, appropriately titled "picture profile")
Go into which ever Picture Profile you are using, 1,2,3,4, etc... then find you way to 'Black Level' and bring it back down to the setting 0.
 
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