ryan brown
lOwEr CaSe Member
+1
I just browsed for 10 minutes and found NUMEROUS opportunities. Put together a good reel and get out there and make it happen: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/
Freelance work, am I being ripped off?
- Thread starter pulp
- Start date
+1
I just browsed for 10 minutes and found NUMEROUS opportunities. Put together a good reel and get out there and make it happen: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/
Gotcha. I applied to them, actually, as well as a few similar.
I'm not supposed to, but I have. As I said, nothing in writing, so.
That's why I haven't started doing retail or something like most of the people I attended college with. Easy case to make to friends who feel like they've sold their souls working jobs they could have gotten after high school with college degrees, especially in the arts, but not so easy to make to my family, or myself, when I see how much crap I put up with. I do understand every job has it's crap, though.
When I first asked if they could provide any travel comp, the manager immediately flew into "no" and an explanation as to why. Her exact words were, "we're not paying you to drive from bum****." That's when she "realized" she wasn't providing me any travel comp at all, and offered to do it from DC.
She's pretty nice, and the "bum****" thing is just sort of... her way of speaking, she talks like someone in their 20s talking to someone else in their 20s, but still it was a little insulting. Point is, I did absolutely ask.
They know full well that cutting generally tacks on several extra hours of work, so they know none of their jobs actually take "two hours," that's just how long the shoots are scheduled for.
Early on, when I cared more, shoots generally went longer, up to 5 hours, just to get good takes of the clients, as most aren't exactly public speakers. Then the four hours traveling, then cutting, then uploading. I don't really factor "preparing" or loading gear into that, but yeah, I see what you mean.
Ideally, they claim their jobs take "up to" an hour and a half to shoot, with 10-15 minutes of video shot. Then two hours editing, and a few uploading to the FTP. In reality, most shoots are at least a half hour of footage, and generally take the full two hours, often times more. Editing... Well, they revise the final edits, so I put less and less effort into that, honestly, because of how poorly they treat their videographers, and how often clients cancel due, which means I've set aside a day where I can't do other work unless from home.
I send out literally hundreds of resumes a month on Craigslist. Every paid videographer, editor, or DP listing posted, I respond to. The issue is, Craigslist is the dregs. It's for people who did a search for videographers in their area, saw day rates from $350 to a few grand, and thought, "that's ludicrous, I can get it for $50 and a sandwich!" and that's, generally, what they're offering. I still apply, though, but those don't tend to be jobs anyone wants. I've gotten a few good jobs, and I think it'll pick up during the summer months.
Before any costs of travel, $120.
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Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Nobody here in DC works like that for $120.
I pay PAs more than that.
I pay PAs more than that.
Apparently at least 4 other people do, and dozens of people around the country do. They, I believe, has several shooters in most major cities.
It's not for lack of trying. As I said, I send hundreds of resumes, and I'll take anything that pays better than that, just about. But a man has to eat and keep a roof.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
Is that $120 for 2 hours? Are are they supplying the gear, the edit gear too? If you have the gear, maybe figure out who their clients are (or their kind of clients) and become a competitor.
That is, as many have pointed out, an insanely low rate for this business. I guess I should say it's an unsustainably low rate, more what I see my dear writer wife offered, not filmmakers...
Filmmakers: are we becoming the new writers (that it, very low on the totem pole)?
That is, as many have pointed out, an insanely low rate for this business. I guess I should say it's an unsustainably low rate, more what I see my dear writer wife offered, not filmmakers...
Filmmakers: are we becoming the new writers (that it, very low on the totem pole)?
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I understand that, and I also understand the temptation to do it. I would be remiss if I didn't say that I've been guilty of it at points as well. If someone's just starting out and has a cheap camera (Canon T2i, HV20, ect.) then I don't so much as have a problem with it, but once you start bringing in expensive gear (EX-1, lighting) and delivering a product that is noticeably head-and-shoulders above the rest, then it starts to drag on you as you have to deal with the extra work. Especially if you're not doing in part time in conjunction with a 9-5er.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
*ugh* I hate that analysis... even if it is correct. It's like saying as long as you need to pay your bills you're part of the problem
There's a line in the industry, held tight mostly through established relationships... It doesn't matter how good the quality of your work is, as long as it's good enough, once you're on the right side of that line... and it doesn't matter how good your work is, even if it's spectacular... if you're on the wrong side of that line. Plus gear is a very very real consideration. If a guy can do decent work and he's got $250K worth of gear... you aren't going to break into his professional relationships. i.e. even if that company does some stuff with an ex-1, but does other stuff with a Varicam... it 'aint gonna' matter if you get an ex-1 and a nice lighting package. The other company will always be THE company for local producers.
Even to get established on your own you have to fight the above problem, combined with the fact that low-end production, corporate, or other basic "talking head" type of stuff... even with B-roll... well... it just isn't rocket science... so... if you have a decent cam and a small, yet capable lighting kit that you know how to use... but you still haven't nurtured those relationships with local producers... then you're in the same boat with a hundred other local guys like you. You're in the vast pool that the "big" guys have to pull from... for subcontracting gigs.
I'm sorry but I hate the "if you're working too cheap you're part of the problem" statement. It's supply and demand... in a completely saturated market... where good enough is the standard... and almost everybody is good enough to sub low-end work.
If you're capable of being better then good enough... and can prove that you do work that's better then others... then yes, by all means prove it with footage... and SELL yourself as such! Then on top of that... be a cool person and try to build relationships with those that crew the shoots and/or otherwise produce your local work. That's your only option here.
This is why I say that ultimately... you gotta' create, produce, and sell your own stuff... but hey, if your wife is a professional writer... you already have a great partner to do just that.
I'm using an HVX (hence why I'm here), and for this job, I don't do lighting. They don't pay me well enough, and it's not recommended because they don't allow time for it.
The issue with the 9-5 thing is that I essentially can't get another job while working for these guys, unless it was something from home. They don't give enough notice for the majority of shoots to have time to tell another employer that you'd need off, and clients cancel so often that, if I were to try another job while still working this one, I'd still have half of my time off because of how frequently people cancel same-day or very short notice.
Yikes.
I just sent my boss an email. Most likely, it'll get me fired (or, since I'm freelance, I'll just never get another scheduled shoot), but screw it. I've been speaking to friends, and other videographers, as well as seeing posts here, and I can't stand the lousy treatment anymore, monetarily. I'm just asking for equal travel compensation.
"Hey, (manager). I don't mean to be a pain or overly negative, but I've been looking at my costs versus my compensation for these shoots and it's been a little troubling. I've spoken with some other videographers and freelancers for their thoughts, and I ran the math on how much I'm getting out of the average shoot when all is said and done. Minus the cost of travel, and divide the hours driving, shooting, importing, editing, and uploading (which, of course, the latter of I'm not working during, but I have to remain in one place, attached to one internet connection and harddrive, so by ability to do other work is limited), and I'm making less than minimum wage by the hour, even if I cut upload time in half. I love shooting, and I love doing video work, but it's a little troubling to know how much work is put in versus the eventual compensation. This doesn't even begin to factor in wear and tear on my vehicle, which has had upwards of 6,000 miles put on it in the brief time I've been working for (company), the cost of media, or the costs and limitations that the innumerable cancellations and reschedules has placed on my schedule as a freelancer, or a member of the workforce in general. I enjoy the position and I hope to continue doing wonderful work for the company, but it has become rather straining. Even the smallest of assistance would really help.
Really, the best way to improve this situation is travel compensation. I spend at least a quarter, probably closer to a third, of my paychecks on gas for later shoots, to the degree that I've been in the hole a few times and had to borrow money to continue shooting. While metering travel from DC does help, it sometimes can cause more trouble. As the minimum mileage from DC is 30 miles, in many cases, the jobs that are the furthest, being closest to DC, I don't end up with any travel assistance for. Those that are nearest to me, while I do get some travel compensation for, still cost two or three times the amount of compensation offered. I just wanted to get in touch and respectfully request if anything could be done to assist this issue, and perhaps if I could be given equal treatment as the other videographers working for the company who recieve compensation based on their home location. I really do want to continue providing my services, and I've tried my best to avoid this topic, but I've been dealing with my monetary situation for some time now, and I don't think that that is the norm for a videographer who has shot over 30 videos in less than six months. Thank you for your time and consideration, I hope to hear from you soon."
"Hey, (manager). I don't mean to be a pain or overly negative, but I've been looking at my costs versus my compensation for these shoots and it's been a little troubling. I've spoken with some other videographers and freelancers for their thoughts, and I ran the math on how much I'm getting out of the average shoot when all is said and done. Minus the cost of travel, and divide the hours driving, shooting, importing, editing, and uploading (which, of course, the latter of I'm not working during, but I have to remain in one place, attached to one internet connection and harddrive, so by ability to do other work is limited), and I'm making less than minimum wage by the hour, even if I cut upload time in half. I love shooting, and I love doing video work, but it's a little troubling to know how much work is put in versus the eventual compensation. This doesn't even begin to factor in wear and tear on my vehicle, which has had upwards of 6,000 miles put on it in the brief time I've been working for (company), the cost of media, or the costs and limitations that the innumerable cancellations and reschedules has placed on my schedule as a freelancer, or a member of the workforce in general. I enjoy the position and I hope to continue doing wonderful work for the company, but it has become rather straining. Even the smallest of assistance would really help.
Really, the best way to improve this situation is travel compensation. I spend at least a quarter, probably closer to a third, of my paychecks on gas for later shoots, to the degree that I've been in the hole a few times and had to borrow money to continue shooting. While metering travel from DC does help, it sometimes can cause more trouble. As the minimum mileage from DC is 30 miles, in many cases, the jobs that are the furthest, being closest to DC, I don't end up with any travel assistance for. Those that are nearest to me, while I do get some travel compensation for, still cost two or three times the amount of compensation offered. I just wanted to get in touch and respectfully request if anything could be done to assist this issue, and perhaps if I could be given equal treatment as the other videographers working for the company who recieve compensation based on their home location. I really do want to continue providing my services, and I've tried my best to avoid this topic, but I've been dealing with my monetary situation for some time now, and I don't think that that is the norm for a videographer who has shot over 30 videos in less than six months. Thank you for your time and consideration, I hope to hear from you soon."
No response, though I did get some emails from the manager and the secretary about other jobs, so I assume she read it and ignored it. They called and asked me if I'd go reshoot one of the interviews from a video I shot at least a month or two ago, one of the doctors decided they didn't like being in a white coat in front of a white wall. They offered me $50 to drive 2 hours each way and go reshoot it. I told them ti wouldn't even cover gas and they offered $70. 
The fact that they offered almost 50 percent more just says that if you want to negotiate you can. Do the numbers and if it's worth it for you to do that gig for 200 / 250 bucks, request that. The worst that can happen is they say no, and you find something else.
They'd never do $200-250, that's more than double. An extra $20 for a shoot that shoot be paying full price is one thing, doing double for all their videos is another.
She completely ignored my request email.
+10
stop working for them. Stop. I say this because by continuing to work for pennies, you are rewarding their bad behaviour. I'm sure they are charging well over $120 for the service they arrange, and you do all the work for.
I had a really great client yesterday who treated me like an intelligent individual and not a working grunt. This was the first client who ever tipped or did something really nice for my service, knowing that I was probably making a small percentage of what he paid for the video. He took me to lunch, at which point I asked how much he paid for the video. $1700. I told him, in the future, I'd be much less expensive on my own, independently. Mind you, aside from contacting the client originally, putting the date they pick on my schedule, and adding the final revisions to the edit, I do everything.
Taylor Rudd
Veteran
I did one of these shoots. Just one. They googled my address from the W9 to the location and decided it was 3 or 4 miles shy of mileage reimbursement.
That's about all it took. Good luck.
That's about all it took. Good luck.