Fostex FR2-LE Vs Tascam DR-680? Experienced opinions needed, please :)

S

Symon

Active member
Hi all, I'll cut to the chase...my head is battered! :cheesy:

I recently just sold my Zoom H4n as I really didn't like it and found it noisy. Maybe I was using it wrongly or maybe it is...but I'm now on the look out for a recorder with much improved sound quality which is within the price range of the above two in the title.

Searching the models on the forum brings up zero results (even though Google finds them here) so apologies if it's a bore thread.

I can get both the FR2-LE and DR-680 for similar pricing (and I'm maxing out so no SD suggestions ;) ) but I'm reading the FR2-LE is an outstanding machine (quiet) even though it has it's operational flaws (card formatting, outputs etc). I can live with this if the preamps etc are as good as most make out.

I've read a load of opinions on the FR2-LE but not many on the DR-680 what with it being a newer model. It looks to be great even though it has more channels than I currently need. But is the quality good?

I just want to hear personal opinions on quality, please :) Thanks for taking the time to read.

My needs:

  1. Until I can afford more...this is to be a do it all recorder (SFX, Scenes, following people in docs etc)
  2. I will be using it with a shotgun to start with. But moving onto different ones
  3. Size isn't and issue/concern. Chunky or large is fine with me :)
  4. More than two channels is not important right now. Nice if it's a bonus on top of quality
  5. Built in mics aren't paramount either
  6. XLR phantom is important
Considered/discounted

  1. Sony PCM-D50 - Discounted as even though it's quality is unquestionable...needing to have some sort of extra preamp for XLR takes it beyond budget.
  2. Tascam DR-100 - Kinda discounted due to others constantly coming above it in reviews and opinions
  3. Marantz PMD661 - Just don't know enough about the brand and it's not had great reviews
  4. Looooads of others :)
 
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It's really a matter of 2 tracks or 8 tracks.

Both are good machines, though there was a recent thread here about overheating issues on the DR-680. The pre-amps are respectable on both. You might also look into an Ode Bros. mod for the FR2-LE. They'll mod the pre-amps for even better performance.

One other option you might not have considered is the TASCAM HD-P2, which is also available with an Oade mod. It's a stereo (2-track) recorder, but the interface and the form factor are much better than the FR2-LE.

The PMD-661 isn't a terrible machine (also available with an Oade mod), but my least favorite thing about it is the form factor, which is terribly unfriendly for an audio bag. The FR2-LE, DR680, and HD-P2 are all very bag-friendly, though the FR2-LE by far has the worst viewing readout when it's in a bag.
 
Thanks, Alex. Really appreciate it.

I'll check out the HD-P2 now :)

I just want to squeeze the last bit of quality out of what is a small budget. The final sound (or possible sound) is the priority.
 
I've had my FR-2LE for about a year now and it's a great machine. Don't know if I'd use it as a stand-alone though. The meters on the FR-2LE, which are hidden when in a bag, a definitly a downside to it. But I usually use the meters on my 302 to mointor the signal. I know Chad uses a DR-680 and has his mod'd. I assume he'll chime in here any moment.... :)
 
Thanks Pete :)

I've been looking over the Oade site again. But with more purpose, and the cost of units from them (that have been modded) is very competitive. Unfortunately it looks like they don't ship from the states. Shame...because it could be marked as repaired goods and the bargain would arrive in the UK intact as a bargain.

But also the FR2-LE mod has 'currently unavailable' at the moment :(
 
I have noticed you would not want to consider SD for the time being, as you believed it would make you go over your budget. But you discounted Sony D50 and probably Sony M10 as well. That was unfortunate. For a little extra money, you can get MixPre-D + M10 = 750 + 230 = $980. In terms of audio quality and portability, they are > DR-680 = $795 by a noticeable margin. For 980 - 795 = $185 extra, you get well over $185 worth value. Keep this in mind: if you buy DR-680, it's almost mandatory to invest in a portable power solution, which is at least another $100. If budge is really so strict, you probably can only go for FR2-LE.
 
Sound advice, thanks. Looks like it's the FR2-LE as it's reportedly got good battery life with different packs.

I didn't just discount the PCM-D50 without a huge amount of tossing and turning, though :) It's one of the reasons my head is battered :) But because so many users called it a close call between the FR2-LE and the D50 on quality...I went to the FR as a choice due to it having the inputs out of the box for the sameish price.

Either way...as long as I know I'm not making a terrible decision and that the quality is going to well surpass the H4n...I'll be ok :)
 
Symon,

You have been getting some advice, but I think to get good advice, you need to flesh out your questions with what type of recording you do. Are you a HDSLR shooter, a one man band, what is your endgame, etc.? What are your plans for the future? If all you want is advice on the two recorders, so be it, but you may want to consider other options.

I have a 680 and it is a decent machine, but isn't really suitable for mixing more than two channels by itself IMHO. For more than two channels, you really need a mixer. The display is so-so (meters) and the build is only fair. Having said that, it is a good value in the market, and the recorded audio is pretty good. Internal battery power is short lived, so if you are out all day, you need to carry some spares, or think about external power.

Grant
 
Grant, thanks very much for making the effort to reply.

I tried to put my needs in the OP without too much text...but you're right...it's a little vague in parts.

Basically I'm the one man band shooting on DSLR. I've got a planned documentary which is a project that I'll be cutting my teeth on a lot. It's a personal thing so no risk but I'd like to get the best I can out of it. So for that I'll be in a far less controlled sound environment.

However, I'll also be recording sound effects (quite scenes, loud scenes etc). I'm fully aware, through various endeavors, that in any area there isn't a 'do it all perfectly' solution but I hope to get a great recording quality with the future months being upgrading mics etc etc. Obviously eventually upgrading the recorder...if needs be.

As for tracks...like I say in the OP...two is enough. But if the 680 was equal quality to the FR2-LE then the extra channels would have been a bonus. Maybe a luxury, but a bonus all the same. Mixing tracks will be done 100% on the PC. But two is more than enough. But the 680 needing external power would add to weight etc (thanks to you guys for pointing that out). Although I have a home made multi-out power source for driving many devices...it's too heavy for around the waist lol

I basically settled on the FR but the 680 popped up with not many users talking about it's quality which prompted my question here. I've read 100s (must be) of user opinions on the FR and D50 and some love one more than the other and some say it's close. But overall it seems a level field (on quality) so the XLR inputs pushed the FR in front of the revered D50.

But I'm fully open to any suggestions beyond my decision...fully. My budget is double what the H4n costs so I'm hoping to get a decent jump in quality out of it. I have many more things to invest in so the budget is pretty modest...for now. But after cutting my teeth I'll be far better placed to go to the next level with the right choices. Pretty much how I've always worked. Good gear tends not to lose too much value and the learning is always invaluable.

I hope i haven't waffled on too much there lol

But quality and lowest noise for my budget is the main thing.
 
I do own a tascam dr-680. I like the sound quality and I can live with the handling. Especially nice is now in firmware version 1.2, that you can bond several track-volumes together to handle with the one knob.

What makes it unusable for me in most situation is the battery consumption. I use rechargeable batteries that power a sound devices 2-channel mixer for 10 hours and a sennheiser wireless-set for 8 hours. But 8 of these batteries in the tascam dr-680 only last for 1.5 hours. So for a day of shooting you will have to bring a bag of batteries. I now use the dr-680 only in fixed interview situations where I can plug the power.
 
I really like the FR2LE, we've been using it on the feature we've been working on over the last year or so. It's got is quirks but for what you can pick one up for nowadays pre-owned, it's very hard to beat. The headphone monitor is noisy but the pre-amps are solid, I can recommend it without hesitation, my only advice is to get a set of rechargeable AA batteries for it, it goes much much longer on a good set of rechargeable batteries than it does regular alkalines which it will just tear through.

http://www.thataudioguy.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=143&catid=49

My feeling was that if this recorder was good enough for NASA & IMAX, it was good enough for me :)
 
lol Thanks thisisapocalypse. I read that too. NASA's judgement is normally pretty sound.

I've pretty much decided on the FR2-LE but I'm surprised it's still one of the best in it's class some 4 years on.

Anywho, I've spoken to Doug Oade (via email) and he says the reason their modded ones are showing as unavailable is due to "the US FCC has a problem with RF emission from the FR2LE so they are not allowed to import more until it's fixed". Shame as their modded units are very well priced compared to UK prices.

Thanks to you all for your opinions. The battery life has pretty much killed off the idea of getting the 680.
 
I think you'll find that most production sound mixers rely on external power for their bag. I have been carrying the 680 since last December. My bag contains a PSC Alphamix, the 680, and some G3s. The Alphamix uses an NP-1 for power, and also has power distro built in which I use to power the 680. Phantom power comes from the Alphamix. I typically get 4 hours of runtime from the NP-1 powering the mixer and the recorder. I use an Aspen sequential charger for the NP-1 and carry a total of 3 batteries to a set. The Aspen charges the NP-1 in about an hour and by carrying a power inverter for my car, can charge my NP-1s just about anywhere.

An external power system is like a production mixer, once you invest you wonder how you ever went without it. I only wish my G3 receivers could run on external power.

The only problem I've experienced with the 680 was an overheat problem I had one weekend when shooting in 95 degree ambient with the recorder runniing nearly non-stop for hours and hours. Since then I've added a few chill packs to my rig and have not had a problem since. On another note, after having used a quality mixer in front of the 680 while not necessary adds some much funtionality and clean gain it would be hard to switch to a recorder only rig. Now, if only I had the budget for the Zaxcom Nomad or Aaton Cantar.

Symon said:
The battery life has pretty much killed off the idea of getting the 680.
Click to expand...
 
I have both machines. They are both very good. The Fostex is slightly more musical in sound, neutral with a hint of velvet. The 680 I would describe as clear, neutral and transparent. The built-in pres are fine for either, and the Tascam can be slaved to a high quality stereo pair like the Grace Lunatec V3. You could even theoretically sync your camera clock to say an RME FF 400 (using the fine tune function), then sync that to the Tascam. The Tascam has more channels. The Fostex has metering along the sides that give a good idea of your peaks.
I have a toy car battery that will power the Fostex for more than 8 hours and fits in the battery compartment--handy!
Mods--not worth it. Why risk an epic opamp failure or RF? Lowering the noise floor (or raising it...) will make zero difference in a real environment. Mod your Oktavas, maybe.
It is kind of no contest which one to buy--if you can only have one, the Tascam is simply more flexible and has a mixer, lots of channels, and so on.
OTOH, the Fostex is easy to setup and run and then pack away. So I have both. I would not use either of them to record a big orchestra, but I could.
Here is a vid of some audio I recorded with the Fostex and two mics.
Because the mics are reasonably well placed, it sounds good. Only two mics needed. If the mics were not well placed, my bad--no easy fix.
Here is a video with five mics and the Tascam
In this video, it was necessary to add a spot mic after I listened to the balance. No problem, just added a fifth mic on the left, and did a quick mixdown in post.
Less channels is the same as more channels. Except more channels has more if you need them
 
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