For C100 thinkers...

Thanks - good to know. I'm relatively new to external recorders. What would make me want to use the BM Shuttle over the Ninja 2? Is it just preference? I'll look into it more - just thought you might have some insight.

Kegan
 
Kegan said:
Thanks - good to know. I'm relatively new to external recorders. What would make me want to use the BM Shuttle over the Ninja 2? Is it just preference? I'll look into it more - just thought you might have some insight.

Kegan
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It's a bit cheaper than the Ninja. Plus you have HD/SDi and HDMI.
 
Nice. That's always a plus - I suppose the only major difference is I would be limited to using SSDs only with the BM (and not like HD/SDI really matters on the C100...just a plus). SSDs are coming down in price as well, so perhaps it isn't a bad idea instead of the Ninja.
 
Kegan said:
Nice. That's always a plus - I suppose the only major difference is I would be limited to using SSDs only with the BM (and not like HD/SDI really matters on the C100...just a plus). SSDs are coming down in price as well, so perhaps it isn't a bad idea instead of the Ninja.
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I'll say this. When looking or thinking of buying external anything such as recorders, monitors, evf's and such, I find it wise to try and have devices that have both HMDI and HD/SDi on them. Why? Because you have the best of both worlds. If you buy a Ninja, you're kinda stuck with HDMI only. What if you move up in cameras that have HD/SDI like the C300? With this recorder you won't have to purchase another recorder. That is a plus in itself.
 
@Kegan, The biggest difference is that the Ninja obviously has a screen so you can view and review what is being recorded, with the Shuttle you will need to add an external monitor. Essentially you are getting a recorder and an external monitor in one.

Other benefits:
- Start/stop recording with the camera controls on the C100 - this is a winner for me!,
- Mark clips as good/bad so on import to FCPX they are already flagged - I use FCPX and Premiere so this may be useful in speeding up sorting through footage.
- Dual battery slots with power switchable between them, or "continuous" power swapping batteries.
- Zebras, Peaking, Exposure, etc, if you are considering a cheap monitor as well then this might work as a unified solution.
- Can use HDDs and SSDs. A 750gb HDD will give you 7.5 hours recording in ProRess HQ, for $100.
Cons
- If you want SDI as well you will need to use something like the Atomos Connect ($350)
- Costs 3 times as much as the Shuttle

For the Shuttle, it's main benefits over the Ninja 2 would be that it is smaller, has SDI and HDMI built in, and is very cheap. And if you already have an external monitor you can plug it straight into the SDI/HDMI outputs without paying for duplicating the monitoring functionality as with the Ninja.
 
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Thanks a lot Matt. I'm not too concerned with using the recorder with other camera systems. This is specifically going to be for a TV show and used with the C100. Just trying to work out my best options. The screen on the Ninja is terrible, but it is nice to have something there for framing I suppose. I'm thinking that I'll be using SSDs anyway since a lot of it will be run n' gun and I don't like the idea of moving parts getting jostled around. The start/stop recording is MASSIVE. Huge plus in a situation where hitting start twice could be detrimental..

This thread has definitely given me some things to think about. I like the idea (at least in theory) that the C100 w/ external recorder could be marginally better (or at least on par) with a naked C300. Helps me justify in my mind the purchase of the C100s.

Thanks guys,

Kegan
 
Kegan said:
I don't like the idea of moving parts getting jostled around.
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Yes, using HDDs for run-n-gun is not recommended. See this page for compatible drives and recording capacities: http://atomos.activehosted.com/kb/article/compatibility/what-drives-do-we-recommend

I have 2 SSDs for general use and 1 750gb HDD for long running events or other shoots where the camera would be mostly on a fixed tripod. I only use it because there's then no need to swap the drive, 7.5 hours recording is usually more than enough, though I could just use the 2 SSDs for the same purpose. The good thing is SSD prices will drop and capacities increase over time.
 
Sfernald said:
Are these cheap external recorders actually worth it? I've read review after review (for hyperdeck shuffle and ninja) that their output is actually worse than the internal avchd codec.

http://crookedpathfilms.com/blog/2011/12/01/fs100-atomos-ninja-tests/
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/hyperdeck_shuttle_review.shtml

These guys have tiffs and everything to prove it, and it does look worse to my eyes.
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Those are being proven as very reliable recorders. Plus they take HDD's and SSD's, have great battery solutions and menus control. Atomos says the C100 and Ninja 2 will marry very well.
 
dustylense said:
Those are being proven as very reliable recorders. Plus they take HDD's and SSD's, have great battery solutions and menus control. Atomos says the C100 and Ninja 2 will marry very well.
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All of that may be true, but if the image quality isn't better than the internal AVCHD codec (for whatever reason, blame the hdmi output, the recorder, or whatever) than what is the point again?​
 
The whole point of the C100 is to have a compact camera so the idea of hooking up an external recorder goes against what it is.
 
I believe it's clear Canon thought about external recording, even though they did cheapen it. Why put a locking HDMI port on the camera? Clearly someone was thinking about it. Plus, here's how I see it.

If you are shooting a serious enough project, most DP's will use a monitor. So, with the Ninja 2, you get high quality recordings, backup in camera, and it doubles as a monitor with all the fun features.
 
Sfernald said:
Are these cheap external recorders actually worth it? I've read review after review (for hyperdeck shuffle and ninja) that their output is actually worse than the internal avchd codec.

http://crookedpathfilms.com/blog/2011/12/01/fs100-atomos-ninja-tests/

These guys have tiffs and everything to prove it, and it does look worse to my eyes.
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Well that didn't prove anything. You can't take seriously tests where the image is deinterlaced. These guys need to get their workflow in order (stop using FCP7, it's years old) or fix what is causing that. If they need to do pulldown removal then they need to ... do it! If it was done then very, very poorly.

Same thing with morganmoore doing a test with the 5dmarkII and showing pictures where it aliases badly (it's deinterlaced just like those crookedpathfilms-stuff)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?296559-NEX-5R-for-Video&p=1986239050#post1986239050

There are a bunch of guys making tests who really don't know what's happening or why. If you know these pitfalls then you can avoid them. (Don't let FCP7 assign upper or lower field to progressive files for example).

Nowadays this problem is slowly going away (people are moving on from FCP7) but I've got A LOT of editwork out of fixing other peoples sequences. They've never even realised there are huge problems even though the resolution is halved.
 
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maarek said:
Well that didn't prove anything. You can't take seriously tests where the image is deinterlaced. These guys need to get their workflow in order (stop using FCP7, it's years old) or fix what is causing that. If they need to do pulldown removal then they need to ... do it! If it was done then very, very poorly.

Same thing with morganmoore doing a test with the 5dmarkII and showing pictures where it aliases badly (it's deinterlaced just like those crookedpathfilms-stuff)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?296559-NEX-5R-for-Video&p=1986239050#post1986239050

There are a bunch of guys making tests who really don't know what's happening or why. If you know these pitfalls then you can avoid them. (Don't let FCP7 assign upper or lower field to progressive files for example).

Nowadays this problem is slowly going away (people are moving on from FCP7) but I've got A LOT of editwork out of fixing other peoples sequences. They've never even realised there are huge problems even though the resolution is halved.
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If this is user error than that's cool. Is there one of these external recorders that makes it simpler than others? I would rather spend more money and get something that works out of the box with minimal work (with FCPX and C100).
 
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