Footage too dark?

Pascal Parvex

Pascal Parvex

Well-known member
I recently had the first shoot for a private video I'm doing for a good friend of mine. Reporter style shooting, manual zoom, autofocus, F6, 24Pa, Cinegamma V, more or less the most filmic look according to a post here in the forum. And shot to DV, as I still don't have a way for mobile HD recording. The footage turned out great anyway, but: We were filming in bright sunlight at a lake and the HVX suggested the 1/64th ND filter setting. When I reviewed the footage on my CRT, it was too dark. Sure, we were shooting against the sun, but when I had the sun in my back and she was standing in the shade, it still was to dark. In bright sunlight it was better, but still a bit too dark. I tried to light up the footage with ProCoder while transcoding to WMV, but it did not look very good, and the dark areas, her face for example, were blocky through compression. And I'm a "Post processing? What's that?" guy, no matter if still picture or video, so I want to get the footage properly shot and not mess around with it in post.

So, is should I just shoot one step below the HVX ND filter suggestion, like 1/64 -> 1/8 and 1/8 -> None? Or is my CRT not enough adjusted?
 
btsungun.JPG
 
hahaha - John is right.

I've been a victim of this many times (self inflicted) - the little ccd's need a helping hand, hell even the big ones do.
<dopesmack myself - as a reminder>
 
God, I'm not carrying lightning equipment. This was run and gun shooting compared to the stuff you do.

Has anyone something more constructive to add?

But I'm coming back to you guys when I'm shooting in my own sound stage with two dozen stage hands at hand, so that I'll be able handle this in a handier way, hands down.
 
You don't mention anything about using your zebras. There are some great articles if you do a search on how to use them properly and what range is necessary for proper facial exposure .
 
mico said:
You don't mention anything about using your zebras. There are some great articles if you do a search on how to use them properly and what range is necessary for proper facial exposure .
Click to expand...

Hm, yes, the zebras, I thought they were on, but I'll have to look into that.
 
Pascal_Parvex said:
I recently had the first shoot for a private video I'm doing for a good friend of mine. Reporter style shooting, manual zoom, autofocus, F6, 24Pa, Cinegamma V, more or less the most filmic look according to a post here in the forum. And shot to DV, as I still don't have a way for mobile HD recording. The footage turned out great anyway, but: We were filming in bright sunlight at a lake and the HVX suggested the 1/64th ND filter setting. When I reviewed the footage on my CRT, it was too dark. Sure, we were shooting against the sun, but when I had the sun in my back and she was standing in the shade, it still was to dark. In bright sunlight it was better, but still a bit too dark. I tried to light up the footage with ProCoder while transcoding to WMV, but it did not look very good, and the dark areas, her face for example, were blocky through compression. And I'm a "Post processing? What's that?" guy, no matter if still picture or video, so I want to get the footage properly shot and not mess around with it in post.

So, is should I just shoot one step below the HVX ND filter suggestion, like 1/64 -> 1/8 and 1/8 -> None? Or is my CRT not enough adjusted?
Click to expand...
Could be a couple of things. First of all, auto exposure was the first thing I noticed. If you are auto exposing, then your camera is averageing available light. You need to learn how to manually expose using your zebras. Don't listen to the camera when it suggests something to you, like changing your ND settings, if you know your exposure is correct, then dont' let the camera tell you different. Now it is possible that your CRT is not adjusted, I would reccomend a Spyder monitor calibrator, as well as previewing to an external NTSC monitor or I guess in your case an external PAL monitor.
 
Pascal, my experience is very much the same with the cameras suggested exposure settings. I followed Barrys advice re Zebras and set the highest setting to 105%. Dial the exposure up till you get zebras at 105%, dial it back until they are gone and you can be pretty sure that the image will be bright. The camera always goes for a lower exposure than I would normally choose but it is possible to adjust its preference in the menus. You can set the auto exposure reading higher than its default.

The marker is great but time consuming.

This works in daylight and bright conditions but indoors and on dull days? what John said! This camera needs plenty of light.
 
Pascal_Parvex said:
We were filming in bright sunlight at a lake and the HVX suggested the 1/64th ND filter setting. When I reviewed the footage on my CRT, it was too dark. Sure, we were shooting against the sun, but when I had the sun in my back and she was standing in the shade, it still was to dark. In bright sunlight it was better, but still a bit too dark.
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So if you had the sun AND the lake in frame, yes that would possibly create a "change to ND filter" situation.
As suggested use reflectors or lights next time, depending on your framing (even if its only a 100 euros generator with two 500w worklights attached...)
If you changed to ND and later positioned the subject in the shadows (as stated) and didn´t change back to no-ND, this also would produce a dark image.
And I don´t understand what you mean by "run and gun", are you doing documentary or ENG work? Getting the shot at whatever cost? No time for a second take? Time pressure?
Don´t get me wrong, but run and gun for a cameraperson in my understanding means having no direct control over anything but your camera with or without attached sound or light.
If you also don´t know how to control your camera, you`re in an other situation...
So first learn how to use the Zebra, this will get you through most set ups.
And also try to avoid using auto focus, only if you just got blinded by a Cobra or sth;o)
 
Thanks for the loads of advice. I suppose the zebra setting will do the trick. I know that everything manual would be best, but I want to go step by step. And I was satisfied with the autofocus, sure, long zooms take several seconds for the autofocus to get a sharp picture (24p), but most was wide angle up to medium zoom. In about 30 minutes of footage, I think there was only one situation, where the focus was wrong, but only for a short time.

And the shooting style, you know, it's really documentary style. The possibility to reshoot is there, but spontaneity is the concept, the idea.
 
As always, tons of advise. The advise about zebra is probably the most important. Just remember that right off the blocks, the 200 is going to require at least one full F stop over say a DVX100 series. Now add to that progressive and you've added even more light required.

I shoot a lot of "run & gun". Once you get used to your camera, you'll know just what the limitations and problem areas are. As for "auto focus", or for that matter, anything "auto", in an ideal world, don't use it. However, having said that, many times I don't have the luxury of a DP, studio lighting, sound engineers, or even the ability to say "Cut". It's shoot it now, no do overs.

The thing that all of us on this forum have to understand is that the person or persons using the HVX200 are not using it for the same purpose. Some will be shooting a movie while others may be using it for documentaries, or commercials, or training videos, or weddings or something else.

As an example, I use mine in conjunction with my other DVX100's to shoot events and weddings in SD either 16x9 or 4x3. I'm also using it for a HD project that I have full control over everything. That's the beauty of this camera.

So.....Pascal, just go for it.
 
Pascal,
To be honest it sounds like you need to learn how to expose video properly.
Take a course, read some books and/or experiment.

It has nothing to do specifically with the HVX, though the Cine V setting you are using is very contrasty and will be difficult to use under bright sun conditrions.
 
I agree on the speakers before,

tra to get into the settings etc. and also use something different to "color correct" the pro coder or whatever: After effects, shake, combustion will give you better results, and definitly no blockiness if you go "uncompressed" or "losless" in output...and try to get a recording solution, id never go backt to tape on dv, watching the dvcpro50 footage, uncorrected, and with the great possibilities of cc!

We shot a documentary with mostly natural light (and a lamp for construction works, 20 euro from a market...for interview inside) also if the hvx is light hungry, it makes great pictures without any artificial light with the right settings.

Id suggest you to get a "camera man", maybe a film student that you work together with, that will also give you a lot of knowledge...and never leave your "zebra" at home..!!
 
With the DVX, I always shot progressive, so it would be one stop. But as I said, the zebra should do the trick.

hvx_germanboy said:
tra to get into the settings etc. and also use something different to "color correct" the pro coder or whatever: After effects, shake, combustion will give you better results, and definitly no blockiness if you go "uncompressed" or "losless" in output...and try to get a recording solution, id never go backt to tape on dv, watching the dvcpro50 footage, uncorrected, and with the great possibilities of cc!
/QUOTE]

It's not ProCoder fault, it is really a terrific piece of software, it's because I did no only increase the brightness, but I also transcode it from DV to WMV with just 50% quality, and with higher brightness, the blocks in dark areas really show.

I have been looking all along for a recording solution, but the Firestore is out of reach for now, as long as it is on backorder, and my notebook is only good for stationary work. But I'm already impressed, delighted about the quality of the DV footage the HVX puts out, it really shows the internal processing at full resolution.
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In reading the post it seems you blindly followed the hvx advice for use of ND filter instead of evaluating why it was giving that recomendation and then using other tools to solve the problem if the need be.

Its just like using autofocus - it might focus on an item in the foreground instead of what you want the subject to be in the background - but would you blindly follow the autofocus - no - you would focus on what you choose.

Use the ND filters if you want to not if the camera gives you a recommendation
 
smelni said:
In reading the post it seems you blindly followed the hvx advice for use of ND filter instead of evaluating why it was giving that recomendation and then using other tools to solve the problem if the need be.

Use the ND filters if you want to not if the camera gives you a recommendation
Click to expand...

I thought, that the HVX was right, because on the LCD in bright sunlight, the footage looks much darker than it really is. Well, for the DVX, I made the experience, that the DVX is right.
 
You can never EVER EVER use the lcd to judge exposure or color - EVER period. you need a produciton monitor
 
smelni said:
You can never EVER EVER use the lcd to judge exposure or color - EVER period. you need a produciton monitor
Click to expand...

That's why I have been using zebra. And that's why I said that the LCD does not show the actual exposure, mostly too dark.
 
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