Focusing

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DNathan

Well-known member
Focus Assist works nicely when your subject is dead center, but doing weddings I'm trying to find a better way. So I have the couple, and between them are sun-lit flowers 20ft away. The Focus Assist hits the flowers and nothing else. The shot is live, so I can't pan to the left to rack my focus. Being outdoors, the sun makes everything harder.

Anyone have a technique for focus in this type of situation? :huh:
 
Sometimes I use the readout on the display (e.g. 5m etc.) and set that to what I think the actual distance is. This can work quite well depending on the DoF you have to play with.
 
just shot my first wedding yesterday with the hmc150....had to deal with the same thing.

i kept catching the auto focus latching onto the background some 20-50ft behind my subjects!

so i opted for setting it to manual focus and before hitting the record button zooming in real quick and hit the quick auto focus button or manually focussing.

otherwise, if not zoomed in too much, relying on the distance reading to get it in the right ballpark. i've found it to be a bit inaccurate though and there is a learning curve to interpreting the distance it tells you to what you can judge by sight alone.

generally though, the more i'm zoomed in (shallower dof), the more my subject fills the frame and the more accurate auto focus becomes.

i'm still learning how to shoot. or rather, i'm relearning how to shoot with this camera!

after this experience, i really can't wait for face recognition to become a much more standard feature. would be really helpful in live run-n-gun situations. ;)
 
averan said:
after this experience, i really can't wait for face recognition to become a much more standard feature. would be really helpful in live run-n-gun situations. ;)
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I'll repeat what I always say... NEVER EVER trust Auto Focus. Never put yourself at the mercy of the camera, especially in something like a wedding where there is never a second chance. Even if face recognition where to become a standard feature... it would probably focus on the wrong face ;)

Learn to use manual focus and use only it. Once you get the hang of it, you'll never want to go back, as it frees you up to be soooo much more creative and accurate with you shots.
 
I was very surprised at how bad this cam autofocus is... I'm not a fan of running things auto, but there are a few times i wish i could use autofocus for a few minutes.

i totally agree about focus assist being a pain to use sometimes... I use my camera the same way studio1972 does. I changed the distance setting on the camera from "Numbers" to actual "Meters and Centimeters" this technique works great if you're good at telling distance (and mostly use it when the camera is on wide, The more you zoom the easier it gets to focus.

Now going to a different complaint, The LCD on the camera is inferior to what it should be. If it had higher resolution it would make it a lot easier to focus on. I'm thinking on getting an HD Monitor to fix this problem, Panasonic should had done some more field testing before letting this crappy LCD out. (and don't get me started on the angle of view)

One last tip i can give you is... if you have a stationary camera, you could zoom-in into the areas you want to record before service starts (you could use an object in the same spot, an assistant or a fellow co-worker/photograher).
So Zoom in and focus, and write down the distance or remember it (for each angle) i usually do this for the Readers location, candle location, vows location, and any other point of interest... once you have that info you could "pan&zoom&focus&change-exposure&adjust-audio-levels" all at the same time... it helps if you have an arm control for the camera ;)

You'll be surprised at how fast you start guessing distance!
 
I have only played with the autofocus a few times but it seems quite fast IMO. One tip is if its focusing behind your subject a quick spin of the focus wheel will push the focus on your subject. I learned this the other day shooting some birds out my window. When I would pan between feeders the camera would focus on the apartemnts across the lot during the pan and when i would frame up the feeder a quick touch of the wheel told the camera it needed to be focusing a closer distance. Not sure if this works in all situations though and the AF works much faster in 60p. The push auto button can come in handy at times too while in manual focus to at least get you close to your subject.
 
studio1972 said:
Sometimes I use the readout on the display (e.g. 5m etc.) and set that to what I think the actual distance is. This can work quite well depending on the DoF you have to play with.
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I use this method with great results most of the time. There is one thing I'm uncertain of.. Is this distance it gives you accurate if you are say zoomed in 50%?
 
DNathan said:
Focus Assist works nicely when your subject is dead center, but doing weddings I'm trying to find a better way. So I have the couple, and between them are sun-lit flowers 20ft away. The Focus Assist hits the flowers and nothing else. The shot is live, so I can't pan to the left to rack my focus. Being outdoors, the sun makes everything harder.

Anyone have a technique for focus in this type of situation? :huh:
Click to expand...

Have you tried using the EVF-DTL button behind the LCD? It adds an sharpen filter to the LCD display which makes focusing a little easier.
 
Mike Harvey said:
I'll repeat what I always say... NEVER EVER trust Auto Focus. Never put yourself at the mercy of the camera, especially in something like a wedding where there is never a second chance. Even if face recognition where to become a standard feature... it would probably focus on the wrong face ;)

Learn to use manual focus and use only it. Once you get the hang of it, you'll never want to go back, as it frees you up to be soooo much more creative and accurate with you shots.
Click to expand...

i'm sure i'll get better, but they aren't making it easy with the low-res lcd. i still can't totally trust that the subject is in focus, even with the focus-assist dtl function turned on.

because of that lack of a second chance, i like to use auto-focus to help as i'm worrying about framing and exposure and such. of course i'm coming from a cam that had great auto-focus, instant auto-focus. i got used to setting focus with the auto-focus, then locking it. it was quick and easy.

also, its nice to have auto-focus track a subject. i haven't figured out how to both follow focus a moving subject while also reframing with the zoom, panning or otherwise moving the camera and maintaining proper exposure.

i can really appreciate the pro skills required to properly operate a prosumer camera!
 
I don't think I could ever totally wean myself from auto focus, as outdoor processionals almost always need manual iris during a pan, so I trade off a perfect focus for better iris.

Superfresa66, you are a genious! I always think, "What the heck is a meter?" And I can't visualize stopping a wedding to tape measure the distance from my cam to the couple. ;o) But BEFORE the Ceremony I can use a stand-in to get that focus setting. Man, I owe you one!

I use the EVF-DTL now and again, but it's not may favorite. Perhaps I need to discipline myself more with it.
 
This is how I focus:
1) When I use a tripod:
If outside and the object is distant (>10 meter), I use the Focus Assistant and EVL DTL to focus by zooming in, then focus on object accurately, then zoom back. Use the meter distance to help focusing, but I will put more attention on exposure and possibly zooming. Both FOCUS and IRIS are in manual mode.
If the object is close, but focal distance is not expected to change, it is the same.
If the object is close, but expected to move, reduce iris to get a deep DOF and use the meter distance to focus. If the exposure is expected to change, switch on Auto Exposure (always seem to underexposure), my attention will be mainly on FOCUS and ZOOM.

2). If I can't use a tripod, always tune down IRIS to get a deep DOF, also switch on optical stabilizer.
If the object is more than 5 meters away and focus distance does not expect to change, it is same as the first explanation above.
If the object is expected to move, I may switch on Auto Focus and always put the object at the center of my frame (don't use 24p, or even 30p, instead use 60p or 60i). I will concentrate on exposure and zoom.

It is hard (almost impossible for one person) when you have to adjust everything simultaneously, when it is too difficult, I tend to sacrifice proper exposure (only brief period) in order to get everything else right.

One thing to add here: When I use HMC150, DOF is usually quite deep, so compare to a real movie, the video often look amateurish.
Just my humble opinion.
 
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I do weddings as well, I set mine up to show meters also. I run Auto Focus and just check the meters displayed whenever is goes bananas and focuses all the way back instead of on the subject I quickly set it to manual and focus it myself.
It's not 100% accurate but to get in the ballpark I count how many foot steps away the subject is and divide by 2 for a meter or basically every 2 steps is about 1 meter. I don't physically walk to the subject I just visually imagine how many foot steps I think I need to take to reach them. This is for those times when you can't precheck your focus to the distance.
 
great tips from everyone, thanks!

i think the camera tends to shift auto focus to the background especially when it is lit brighter than the subject in the foreground. if true, this would help to know, being able to predict in which situations it would tend to screw up your shot.

wonder why the techs haven't come up with an auto focus system that defaults to the foreground instead of the back?

i've also tried running in auto focus but manually correcting, but the camera tends to immediately go back to whatever it thinks should be in focus.

i'm eager to test out the face-tracking auto focus systems! would be nice to just pick your target and let the camera do the work of following focus.

for now i'll just have to follow everyone's advice and learn to work around it.
 
I shoot weddings and use manual focus 95-100% of the time. I actually prefer my readout to be on feet instead of meters. For the processional I focus on the back pew and remember that number. Then I focus on the front pew and remember that number. Those are targets. As the subject gets to the mid way point, I aim to have my feet readout to be at the midway point as well.

I also use this feature for pulling a rack focus during the ceremony. Sometimes I can line up a Bridesmaid in the backround of a shot of the Brides face. I make a mental note of the two points and roll focus based on the numbers. This works with my workflow because I have two other cameras rolling at the same time.

By the way, I chose to use feet instead of meters because I felt like it would give me a more detailed accurate readout. For instance, if the subject is 28 feet away the meter readout may say 10 meters or 9 meters, but the feet readout would, in theory, be more accurate. This is just a theory. I have not tested it for accuracy.
 
That makes sense Mark. I just don't think in terms of meters. I also like your rack focus technique.

It's funny; in Arizona we never have pews, just grass and plastic chairs.
 
By the way, I chose to use feet instead of meters because I felt like it would give me a more detailed accurate readout
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I use meters, when the object is real close and focusing is very critical the camera would give you the "meters & centimeters" and when the distance starts getting bigger it goes in .10 of a meter and after a bigger distance it goes every .50 of a meter.
If you pay attention once your subject is really far back, focussing is not as hard (as long as you're in a mid zoom) if you're zoom in all the way then it gets more critical

DNathan, I'm glad you like this technique... is hard working with this LCD!!!
 
Yeah. you don't like this LCD much, do you?
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I guess is ok if it came on a camera 5 years ago, but knowing the LCD's that are out on other systems it makes me jealous!... I'll probably be buying a Manhattan LCD soon!

Going back to the focusing issue, i use meters because i was raise with the metric system (almost the entire world) so for me is not a big problem!
 
DNathan said:
That makes sense Mark. I just don't think in terms of meters. I also like your rack focus technique.

It's funny; in Arizona we never have pews, just grass and plastic chairs.
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You can think of meters in the terms of yards. It's not exactly the same, but its somewhat close. Since I am a football fan, I can visualize 10 yards, 20 yards, 50 yards, etc.

I wouldn't mind grass and plastic chairs. At least lighting would not be an issue.
 
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but just wanted to thank Mark Von Lanken for all of the reviews he did on this camera. They were one of the big factors of me getting the HMC150!
 
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