AC130: Focus updates anyone?

kwkeirstead said:
My unit goes out Monday afternoon to Toronto and should be back Wednesday.

I will test it next Thursday/Friday and provide feedback.
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Dying to know how your hardware update went. As a previous poster said: "Let us know if it actually fixes the auto-focus issue besides the two NEW added assist functions."

Details welcome. :)


PS. After reading the post that immediately precedes this one, I think maybe its time for me to go to sleep. I had a bit of trouble getting through that post without feeling like my brain was melting away.

Goodnight.





 
It actually went out Wednesday and should be back Tuesday 7/24. I will then run some tests and document my findings.
 
Hi, my AC160 came back this morning from Panasonic. It's now an AC160A and will be used tonight for opening night of a music theater production. There probably wil be no great opportunities to test the focus feature at this indoor event 60 feet back from the stage but I will run some tests outdoors tomorrow and report on any findings.
 
Conntact the Panasonic Service Center in Secaucus NJ. They have the kits and can turn it around for you.

Best,

Jan

CEWest said:
My AC 160 is purchased in the US. I'm definitely interested in the upgrade, but I'm not sure where to call or send it. I live in Indiana. Quite frankly shipping my baby off scares me to death. I'm starting to get used to it, and I really like the picture quality. So far I've videoed three weddings with it.
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OK, here's the deal. After 15 mins of testing where I put on auto-focus and zoomed in on a treetop 100 feet away, then jumped to a flower 6 feet away, the synch time was 3 seconds. I expect it would be much less for two objects closer together. Seems to me this type of maneuver used to take MUCH longer, and maybe there was some hunting back and forth getting to the new focus BUT no indication of any kind of this behavior at all with the 160A.

As for Push-Auto, well, its too fast to measure, so I would label the performance as 'Instantaneous'.

Here is a first recording with the 160A (short clip from a 2 hour music theater production) - done under very bad lighting - the test has nothing to do with auto-focus or push auto (I was 57 feet away, 720/30p, gain of 6db, ). But the test did not reveal any change in normal behavior as a result of the upgrade.



Uploaded time:
Jul 26, 2012 08:11 AM

Video URL:
http://youtu.be/_eHOn0zfG3o


Curiously, I tried a direct XLR feed from a mixer for the 1st time - very bad results and I don't yet have any idea why.

Whereas with my on-camera Rode VideoMic I usually get pretty good results, the direct feet had two (2) major issues with several things I probably need to check out (my possibly incorrect settings, a problem with the mixer, not very likely to have anything to do with the camera, not very likely to be the cables as they are high quality and being used for the first time).

1. instead of the usual audio dial settings of 5-8, the direct feed at settings of "Line" with CH1 and CH2 at manual and -60db could only handle the lowest settings on the dial and when I moved it up just one tic, I was at red line overload.

2. lots of crackling (probably related to hitting the red line as opposed to intermittent connections)

Since the show runs 5 nights, I will be back tonight with no XLR connections.

Now, I am off with camera, tripod and a stopwatch to do a quick video of some geese at a pond. I will check out autofocus between the far shore of the pond where they seem to have taken up residence and the geese themselves.
 
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Thanks for posting your video on the new upgrade . It look like it in focus even with that candle on the cup cake and went to dark i am impress. Usually christmas tree lights and cars head light can throw off the 160 even in wide angle.
i will upgrade in january where my work slow down. Again how long did the turn around time?
Thank again :kiss:
 
I was in manual mode.

I belong to the old school where I still pre-measure distance with a 200 ft surveyor's tape, have someone hold up a $34 white card that I zoom into for white balance, override the LCD with waveform, EVF set to black/white, and I suppose I will soon want to get a laser distance meter because it DOES make a difference on even a small theater stage betweeen the middle row of a line of actors and their exit when they all cluster into a huddle toward the back of the stage.

I only use auto for sports events. But, when you have fast moving action, that is precisely the time when you need auto-focus and it seems we now have with AC160A the option of waiting for the sytem to synch OR pushing Push Auto. If you can wait, then leave it at auto, if you cannot wait press "Push Auto".

I wish the Push Auto button reached outward rather than being flush, but I admire the designers for recessing the 48v toggle switches. You don't want to engage these at the wrong moment.

I wish the camera would have a state indicator for zoom server on/off. The remedy is never close down the camera with this ON.

It seems Panasonic is a company that really cares about how people use their products. I get the impression they went to great lengths to do such things as have a cover for the Audio Level dials (I removed it).

As a former GE design engineer, I really cannnot find a single feature layout that is in the wrong place except for the zoom server manual/auto which I would have implemented as auto/manual to map to the master auto/manual switch. The designers probably have an explanation that escapes me at present.

If anyone is in the market for a general-use semi or perhaps not semi broadcast camera, you can find a better camera at 10 times the price, but I doubt you can find a better camera at the price the AC160A sells for.
 
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Could you do a couple of tests like mine, and please use auto-everything mode. When you get time that is, thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70crNGs30Jg

And before you got the upgrade, did you notice autofocus issues like mine in the video, where that camera was hunting and going in and out of focus, and I assume now it is better--- I hope.

This is the same video as above, but in more detail and side by side comparison of the HMC150
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvQsC_AAaf8

And so no one gets confused, my footage is NOT with the upgrade.

I really am hoping they fixed this autofocus issue I was having, and the 130 is now similar in autofocus like the HMC150.
If not, let me know. Thanks
 
Another thing, if I buy a 130a from B&H, it will cost me 3980. If I buy the ac130 from amazon, 3249$ And if you can get the upgrade for 300$ more, you are still saving money then buying the AC130a new. Does not make much sense.
 
If you live in the US and do get an AC130a from Amazon, make sure it is was bought in the USA not anywhere else.

It's my understanding that for Canada and the US at least you cannot send a US camera to Canada, nor can you send a Canadian camera to the US for upgrades

Best you check with Panasonic for confirmation of these rules but above all find out precisely where the unit you might be getting on Amazon comes from.
 
kwkeirstead said:
I was in manual mode.

I belong to the old school where I still pre-measure distance with a 200 ft surveyor's tape, have someone hold up a $34 white card that I zoom into for white balance, override the LCD with waveform, EVF set to black/white, and I suppose I will soon want to get a laser distance meter because it DOES make a difference on even a small theater stage betweeen the middle row of a line of actors and their exit when they all cluster into a huddle toward the back of the stage.

I only use auto for sports events. But, when you have fast moving action, that is precisely the time when you need auto-focus and it seems we now have with AC160A the option of waiting for the sytem to synch OR pushing Push Auto. If you can wait, then leave it at auto, if you cannot wait press "Push Auto".

I wish the Push Auto button reached outward rather than being flush, but I admire the designers for recessing the 48v toggle switches. You don't want to engage these at the wrong moment.

I wish the camera would have a state indicator for zoom server on/off. The remedy is never close down the camera with this ON.

It seems Panasonic is a company that really cares about how people use their products. I get the impression they went to great lengths to do such things as have a cover for the Audio Level dials (I removed it).

As a former GE design engineer, I really cannnot find a single feature layout that is in the wrong place except for the zoom server manual/auto which I would have implemented as auto/manual to map to the master auto/manual switch. The designers probably have an explanation that escapes me at present.

If anyone is in the market for a general-use semi or perhaps not semi broadcast camera, you can find a better camera at 10 times the price, but I doubt you can find a better camera at the price the AC160A sells for.
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Thanks for the post. Yeah, would love to see more tests. Too bad you couldn't have documented tests like Deer Film prior to and after the updates. Deer Film, you should try to rent or borrow a 130A or 160A to see if it has the same issues as prior to the update.

kwkeirstead, would love to see tests like Deer Film's. Oh, and btw, I recommend a laser measurer like the Bosch DLR130k. I bought mine for $60 on eBay and I it absolutely is a life savor. Heck, I've used it in a Wedding once covertly against the back of a brides dress. Ha! (near her feet of course and only for one second). But it's a lifesaver for quick measurements and works really far too. Very accurate. Very quick.

Thanks again for the posts and would love to see more tests.
 
Be aware that the unit from Amazon, especially at that price, may not be a US unit and thus would not be upgradeable in the US. Most of the non-A that are US product have been sold at this time. And your warranty would be elsewhere as well. there is a large gray market problem right now and while we are working on resolving it, it does exist and the buyers need to be aware.

Best,

Jan
 
Deer Film said:
Could you do a couple of tests like mine, and please use auto-everything mode. When you get time that is, thank you.
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It is frustrating that someone got the upgrade, yet has done hardly any testing of the new autofocus, much less post a video showing how well the autofocus now performs. Switching from 100 ft to 6 ft subjects is not something one normally does. I certainly cannot think of any scenarios where I have ever had a need to do that. And why did he post a video here in this thread of the camera being used in manual focus mode??? I just don't see any point at all in doing that.

And then to try to hijack the thread, and steer it into a discussion about an audio problem? I found that rather strange. If people have a totally different topic that they want to discuss, then they should instead start a new discussion on that topic. An audio question of that nature would most likely get the best response if posted in the Location Sound / Post Audio forum.

People clicking on this thread are obviously interested in knowing about how well the autofocus update performs.
 
Hi Lance

I have already on-sold both my Ac-130's but the biggest issues for me were always objects around 6' away from each other! If you place the camera about 15' away from a solid object like a wall with a vase of flowers against it and then get someone to stand about 6' from the wall and do a zoom up so the subject is framed down to their waist and you also have some headroom and let autofocus lock onto the person, which it does perfectly. Now get the person to walk out of the frame and technically the AF should look for the background and the flowers BUT it doesn't!! Get the subject to walk back into the shot and there is absolutely no focus lock at all, the entire scene is now totally fuzzy (both the subject and the flowers) and this seems to happen fairly quickly too!! This was my issue during wedding speeches and they were very well lit!!! If you do a similar shot but have a background much further back ..say 50' or more..the AF holds on the subject (like a wedding couple outdoors) BUT after around 10 minutes the AF starts to shift and eventually locks on the background and stays there. Even at Church weddings I would find that shooting cutaways of guests, the AF would shift focus (almost an auto focus pull) to a further object rather than a closer one. It always seemed to be fine if you were moving left to right ot viceversa but where my issue was seemed always to be front object to background issues on a static camera or fairly long clip with around 3x or 4x zoom where you are holding the cam position whether on tripod or handheld.

With both the HMC80 and 150 series in the exact situation I never had it happen to me. I'm actually back using these cams again and never have any AF issues so I'm still a faithful Panny user!

It would be really great if the new upgrade sorts this out as I ended up staying on full manual after those events and it's tough with run 'n gun situations. A test video with front and back objects (and then remove and return the front one) would certainly prove whether the AF side has been tweaked at all. I certainly hope it works a lot better for you guys!!!

Chris
 
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I started this thread with a simple question:

Does the $300 dollar upgrade IMPROVE the auto-focus or does it only ADD two more focus assists to correct the auto-focus issue by the user and NOT via internal camera means?

Thanks in advance.
 
The way I read the announcement no changes are made to autofocus at all. They just add focus assist and a better push to autofocus button with turbo mode..these to me, are all brilliant in manual focus but nothing will change in autofocus.
Read the article for yourself..maybe I mis-interpreted it??? Nothing is mentioned about improving the autofocus at all here.

LAS VEGAS, NV (April 15, 2012) — Panasonic has announced the AG-AC160A and AG-AC130A, upgraded versions of its newest professional AVCCAM HD camcorders. Improved functionality in both camcorders includes expanded focus assist and “turbo speed” one-push auto focus function; the AC160A also incorporates acquisition in the 1080/60p and 1080/50p HD recording formats (in new PS mode).
In addition to conventional focus-in-red assist, the expanded focus assist enables the AC160A and AC130A to zoom in on the picture to check focus. The turbo-speed one-push auto focus capability ensures that the camcorders quickly attain focus. The addition of 1080/60p and 50p recording (maximum 28Mbps in PS mode) to the AC160A is of especial value to worldwide customers in broadcasting, sports and scientific analysis, where this mastering-quality format is rapidly proliferating.
 
If this is the case, no change to autofocus, then I will not buy. I am very happy with my HMC150, but now I need to look for a second camera.
I hope when Panasonic makes a newer model, they will keep in mind the people that want a working autofocus for run and gun type shooters. If the 130 had this, I would buy 2. For people that are all manual, great for you, and I use manual 70% of the time, but there are a ton of people that want cameras that offer an autofocus that works great other Pro cameras.
On to research and buy my next camera.
 
Seems to me there is a change . . .

Here are test results done by CvX Productions on auto-focus capabilities at the AC 160a.
http://youtu.be/5r_QPIA4tsY

The testing was done with everything set to "auto", referencing a close object (20 feet) and a distant object (possibly ½ mile away).

You will see how the camera operator can get rapid lock in OR see considerable delay to lock in, depending on pointing to a high contrast area or to a low contrast area.

In the test we start off with rapid lock in and then when we repeat “the same test” (not the same test actually) you will notice that we get a long lock in. Repeating it again several times we see rapid lock in.

It all seems to depend on whether you point at objects around the point of interest where there is a contrast (i.e.church and landscape) OR whether you point at the sky/church tower itself where there is less contrast.

A second consideration seems to be whether you try to quickly go from a focus on a close object to a distant object. When you shift from a focus on a close object to an intermediate object and then to a distant object it seems that the settle in time decreases.

You probably do not have to make a deliberate attempt to pick an intermediate object, moving slowly toward the distant object may help the camera to give a better result. Of course, the lock in time seems longer if you flip the view from close to distant whereas when you slowly move to a distant object, the time you spend moving should reasonably be added onto the apparent 'settle in' time.

All in all pretty much what you might expect from a 600 mm eq lens.

Our concluding observation is you can get auto-focus fast lock in by working with the camera as opposed to working against it.

We plan to repeat these tests to see if the test results can be confirmed/better explained.

Anyone who feels the testing is flawed in any way, message karl.walter.keirstead@gmail.com so that correction/improvement can be made in the follow up testing.

We will publish findings on Push Auto once we have sorted out Auto Focus.
 
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Thanks for doing the tests. I would love to buy it, but not convinced yet it is the camera for my needs. I will keep watching the tests. Thanks again.
 
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