C100: Flying C100 on Ronin M (Lightest base plate and FF)

tom1 said:
Strange , my stadycam merlin can manage with fs100 so easily and so well , just in windy day is useless . I thought it does not matter of size camera just wight can be limit
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The gimbal is VERY different than a steadicam. With a steadicam, the camera sits on top... how big it is physically doesn't really matter as long as it's balanced and under the weight limit.

With a gimbal, the physical size of the camera and it's shape is VERY important because the camera sits INSIDE the gimbal, so oddly-shaped cameras will hit various parts of the gimbal. The FS100/700's biggest problem is a combination of the shape (short, squat and long front-to-back) and weight (they're very light)... so to balance out the lens, the camera needs to slide back further... but since it's already quite long you'll hit the crossbar before you can achieve balance.

I guess with a light lens, you can actually put an FS100/700 on a full-size Ronin... but it's very close. I'd be VERY surprised if it fits on the Ronin-M.
 
Cinemilled's photos and analysis are pretty much what I expected... the Ronin-M was designed for DSLR cameras. The bigger stuff is really pushing the limits of the hardware.

The C300 they have on there has the tilt axis maxed out (I said as much) with a pretty small lens.

The FS100 is the same, but the lens used is even tinier.

Also, with the C100 Mark I, realize that when you remove the side handle to put it on the Ronin, you're going to have to un-do and rebalance if you want to change the aperture.
 
Not to steer anyone away from the Ronin M, but IMHO the Letus Helix Jr. is a game changer for C100 run and gun shooters (who also want gimbal shots).

c100-helixjr-1.jpgc100-helixjr-2.jpg

Got mine balanced in a way now I just take my C100 off a tripod, slide it on the Helix Jr with an Manfrotto 394/RC4 quick release, remove the top handle and the grip, and put the grip on the back with a Zacuto grip extender (that's the counter balance). Then turn it on and ready to go. I can zoom in with the 18-135mm lens, or put on several different lenses (Tokina 11-16mm, Canon 35mm f/2 IS) without re-balancing. With a heavier lens, it takes a few seconds to re-balance and you don't need a gimbal stand to do it. Also it's easy on the muscles because you can hold it close, you can go from a low shot to shoulder height by just rotating the helix into a vertical position, and tilt up/down by rotating the handle.

Anyway, obviously I'm infatuated. Lots of former gimbal haters became converts at NAB, once they saw the Helix Jr in action. I did spend a couple hours tinkering with the PID settings (never did that before, but it's actually pretty easy), to remove any vibration and to slow down the pan/tilt for really smooth motion. BTW it folds up, balanced and ready to use, into basically the size of a 90s-era laptop.
 
I think if you are considering the use of a Canpn C100 I or II the Helix Jr. makes more sense. Just fits better.
 
slavikb said:
Not to steer anyone away from the Ronin M, but IMHO the Letus Helix Jr. is a game changer for C100 run and gun shooters (who also want gimbal shots).

View attachment 100715View attachment 100716

Got mine balanced in a way now I just take my C100 off a tripod, slide it on the Helix Jr with an Manfrotto 394/RC4 quick release, remove the top handle and the grip, and put the grip on the back with a Zacuto grip extender (that's the counter balance). Then turn it on and ready to go. I can zoom in with the 18-135mm lens, or put on several different lenses (Tokina 11-16mm, Canon 35mm f/2 IS) without re-balancing. With a heavier lens, it takes a few seconds to re-balance and you don't need a gimbal stand to do it. Also it's easy on the muscles because you can hold it close, you can go from a low shot to shoulder height by just rotating the helix into a vertical position, and tilt up/down by rotating the handle.

Anyway, obviously I'm infatuated. Lots of former gimbal haters became converts at NAB, once they saw the Helix Jr in action. I did spend a couple hours tinkering with the PID settings (never did that before, but it's actually pretty easy), to remove any vibration and to slow down the pan/tilt for really smooth motion. BTW it folds up, balanced and ready to use, into basically the size of a 90s-era laptop.
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Looks really solid! How'd you get the grip attached? I watched some reviews and it's been said that the Helix doesn't too well with running shots though, can you confirm if this is true or not? (or show any samples??)
 
I used a Zacuto C100 Grip Extender, it mounts directly to the Helix's 15mm rails - had to monkey with the orientation until it was just right, with the grip jogwheel and AF toggle facing up, and away from the Helix battery when it goes into vertical briefcase mode. But now the extender stays put and I just have to screw in the grip.

Not sure about running, I'll shoot a test later today and share it. My guess is that heavier gimbal rigs are better for running because there's simply less up and down motion, but perhaps the C100 is heavy enough (compared to the BMPCC, A7S, etc) that the running is fine. Anyway stay tuned...
 
Awesome, thanks! Yeah I was really eyeing the Ronin-M but I may just have to fork over the extra money for the Helix Jr. I'll wait for reviews to come out first for the Ronin-M - hopefully we'll get a clear cut answer to how the C100 will work.
 
The Helix Jr. is also more than twice as much money as a Ronin-M. That said, it is a nice piece of gear.
 
Definitely looks that way. I am pretty broke (I'm moving into a new place soon so I don't have that much to spend.)

If anyone isn't committed to getting a 3-axis gimbal, you may want to check out the new Glidecam Devin Graham Edition. It's on the bottom of my list but it's less than a grand and will definitely hold a C100 without any compromises. They seemed to have fixed all the issues with the previous Glidecam models - built in QR 501-style plate, only two adjustment knobs with no screwing, and you can change the position of the handle so you can easily drop it into low-mode (although the bottom weight system seems to be the same which annoys me).
 
jbregar said:
Cinemilled's photos and analysis are pretty much what I expected... the Ronin-M was designed for DSLR cameras. The bigger stuff is really pushing the limits of the hardware.

The C300 they have on there has the tilt axis maxed out (I said as much) with a pretty small lens.

The FS100 is the same, but the lens used is even tinier.

Also, with the C100 Mark I, realize that when you remove the side handle to put it on the Ronin, you're going to have to un-do and rebalance if you want to change the aperture.
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You can setup the playback buttons on he back of the C100 to be iris+ or iris- buttons. Or any of the other buttons for that matter. Works well enough. I now use the grip extender with the original Ronin.
 
Ok here's my first attempt at running down the street. I could probably run with less bounce in my step, but I wanted to try it at full speed. https://vimeo.com/126968235



Karl Anthony said:
Looks really solid! How'd you get the grip attached? I watched some reviews and it's been said that the Helix doesn't too well with running shots though, can you confirm if this is true or not? (or show any samples??)
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So ronin-m is gonna work with fs100 , but very light lens , pancake 16mm or there is interesting samyang 12mm f2 which is very ,very small . C100 gonna work as well , I just must be sure about sigma 18-35 which is essential for me . If anyone get chance to test it , please share with us .
 
tom1 said:
So ronin-m is gonna work with fs100 , but very light lens , pancake 16mm or there is interesting samyang 12mm f2 which is very ,very small . C100 gonna work as well , I just must be sure about sigma 18-35 which is essential for me . If anyone get chance to test it , please share with us .
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Rather than hang trying to stuff a round peg in a square hole, I'd suggest buying a gimbal that was designed to work with bigger cameras. Using these big cams on the M is bound to be a pain in the ass.
 
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IMHO from nearly all the gimbal footage I've seen to date, the heavier gimbals appear have the smoothest footage, especially when running, so as attractive as lightweight gimbals might sound, there does seem to be a trade off in stability. I might just have to hit the gym instead and man up with a heavy gimbal :undecided
 
Murph100 said:
IMHO from nearly all the gimbal footage I've seen to date, the heavier gimbals appear have the smoothest footage, especially when running, so as attractive as lightweight gimbals might sound, there does seem to be a trade off in stability. I might just have to hit the gym instead and man up with a heavy gimbal :undecided
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This definitely seems to be the case, but I like to work fast and with a tiny crew. Portability really matters to me. And we can't judge a product fully by a few early clips.

I'm very curious if the Ronin M will accommodate a C100 with the Sigma 18-35mm and a small wireless FF and Nyrius Pro transmitter. I know it's just at the edge of what will work, but cinemilled indicates there's a bit of room with the C300 and the C100 is smaller/lighter, but also less front-heavy. This would be a great rig for me.
 
Murph100 said:
IMHO from nearly all the gimbal footage I've seen to date, the heavier gimbals appear have the smoothest footage, especially when running, so as attractive as lightweight gimbals might sound, there does seem to be a trade off in stability. I might just have to hit the gym instead and man up with a heavy gimbal :undecided
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This is the Nebula 4000. Pretty light.
This video is basically straight from camera. No post stabilization at all.

It really doesn't matter what the weight of the gimbal is. What matters is your technique and walk and how the gimbal is tuned.
I have 3 gimbals. The Ronin, Defy G5 and the Nebula 4000.
The C100 will fly on the Ronin M with light lenses. You probably won't get the 24-105 and C100 on the M.
Somebody said they could get the FS700 on the M with pancake lenses. Why? Why be limited to pancake lenses? You're gonna spend money on a gimbal to be limited?
On the clips above we had the Fs7 on the Ronin with a light lens. And it was a beast to hold. It didn't even fit well. I got it working but tilting up was limited. I would have needed the extension arms to properly fit the Fs7 on the Ronin. Thank the Lord above that the director saw what I could do with the N4000 and after one take and review he said, "We're using that for the rest of the shoot". On the first clip above, there is ZERO way to have used the Ronin or the Ronin M on that clip.

I get smoother footage out of the Nebula 4000 than I get out of the Ronin. And I can go all day with the N4000. It all depends on how the gimbals are tuned. Keep in mind that I usually fly the Gh4 and 12-35 on the N4000. I can adjust the lens from 12 to just past 25mm without touching balance and re-tune.

My suggestion. Don't buy a gimbal thinking "Man I can just get this camera on it as long as I use a light pancake lens".
 
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