five minutes and voice-over

[wcs]

... I'll open by saying that I understand and respect the fact that jarred is the rulemaker, and I think he does a smashing job with the contests. I'd just like to put in a comment on the return to five minutes.

There is the idea that no matter the time limit, there will never be enough time... I partially agree, but I think that the balance between 'too much breathing room' and 'rushed/hurried' is not struck at 5 minutes.

I was watching Eros last night, a collection of 40 minute short films... and I just felt pain at how I could really only shoot one scene of this kind of movie in the allotted time for herofest; I could either shoot the introduction scene, or the final scene.

This is not a complaint. Since the rules are not cemented in typeset yet (as far as I've seen), I thought there might be a small possibility that you'd accept a request for more runtime.

I understand that part of the challenge is telling a story in a limited time frame, but I would like to propose that perhaps five minutes is too short to add any real level of complexity. This is not an insult to the filmmakers, only perhaps a comment on my own perceived limitations, but I feel to meet five minutes we must sacrifice either character, plot, or coherance... or we have to put in a voice-over.

It's telling that almost all of the top 10 for scifest had voice-overs. And I'm not saying that it's about the limitations of the creators. I think they realized at some point (consciously or otherwise) that the technique was almost a necessity to tell their story in six minutes. And it's not that I think voice-overs are necessarily bad. I just don't like it when they become the only answer.

And, I know that I can just not-enter, but I've found this community and this contest to be a great place to sandbox my filmmaking skills. After two contests of reading "too rushed" as comments, I thought it might be possible to take this one in a new direction. I'm not asked for forty minutes, but I'd like a minute or two more than five.

Again, this is just a friendly suggestion; there's no anger or deep frustration behind it.

 

[Kholi]

I understand you, completely. I have a real issue with trying to squeeze a good story into five minutes.

We all know it can be done, and well... really? It's just a challenge for you and the rest of us to overcome.

I think five minutes is long enough, and actually, it's a good thing:

Some people won't have enough good and interesting content to stuff into more than five minutes, believe it or not. The five minute time frame forces them to cut it down to the meat and tell the real story, i.e all killer, no filler.

Along with that, we won't have to sit through a not-so-good short movie for ten minutes or so, just so we can give a positive line of feedback and critiquing, right??

Voice-overs are almost a cop-out in short films... I say almost because sometimes they work, and work very well. Similo (Sorry to reference this) was a great example of how a voice-over works. He didn't even need it, as far as I've heard/read from those whom watched it sans sound. I'm going to frown if there are an abundance of voice-overs this competition... Sci-fest was really overdone. That's just my opinion.

It's all up to the writing. Get a tight, plausible script going, slice it down where it needs to be sliced and kill the viewer with it.

You can do it... now I just hope I can. =P

 

[Beat Takeshi]

Just think of how good your 20 minute short will be after mastering this contest.

 

[Kholi]

Just think of how good your 20 minute short will be after mastering this contest.

Yeah, really though. Walk, Crawl, Run. I'm excited... I just hope I can even enter LOL. I keep saying that.

 

[Blaine]

Take a look at this short. It is 6:12 when the credits start to roll. No VO. It can be done.

http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/nonsw/batman_deadend/index.asp

Challenge yourself.

 

[wcs]

Sci-fest was really overdone. That's just my opinion.

It's about the universe. In zombiefest we didn't have to set up the universe, or the rules. We didn't have to say "they are the undead" "cut off their heads and they die". In sci-fest, the first frame of our film was the first frame of existence. To tell a story we had to introduce the world/rules/reality, introduce the characters' relationship to the universe, and then tell a story. The first part almost certainly requires time or voice-over as can be seen in sci-fest.

I understand that voice-overs can be done poorly, and that a lot of skill goes in their production. One the most beloved films of all time used an overt narrator (shawshank). I'm saying the rules almost make it a necessity.

It's all up to the writing. Get a tight, plausible script going, slice it down where it needs to be sliced and kill the viewer with it.

I agree with the theory. My proposition is that I think the theory doesn't apply until a critical runtime is reached, or a voice-over is used.

suck will suck no matter the length, but I'd be willing to sit through another minute of many bad films if one or two films went from 'incoherant' to 'powerful'.

 

[wcs]

Take a look at this short. It is 6:12 when the credits start to roll. No VO. It can be done.

universe previously defined.... check
characters previously defined.... check
relationships previously defined.... check

plot... six minutes, here we come.

 

[wcs]

I'm also saying this:

I'd like to see the seven minute edit of several of the films in the scifest contest, and I think people would agree (I'm not going to name any films for either side of the coin).

 

[Brandon Rice]

I'm also saying this:

I'd like to see the seven minute edit of several of the films in the scifest contest, and I think people would agree (I'm not going to name any films for either side of the coin).

Well, I've posted my 11 min version online Maybe that would suffice?

 

[Blaine]

universe previously defined.... check
characters previously defined.... check
relationships previously defined.... check

plot... six minutes, here we come.

I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. Why it can't be done. If you think it can't be done, it won't. :beer:

 

[wcs]

Well, I've posted my 11 min version online Maybe that would suffice?

Ok... 11 minutes.... maybe not 11 minutes for all films.... darn you...

 

[Brandon Rice]

I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. Why it can't be done. If you think it can't be done, it won't. :beer:

So true. You have to make it work. Somehow, some way. Write a simpler story so you don't have to establish as much.

 

[Brandon Rice]

Ok... 11 minutes.... maybe not 11 minutes for all films.... darn you...

Hey, that is my original cut. What can I say. My script was 11 pages long too. I was a fool to think I could make it work in 6 min. I tried, but it's much better with the full cut.

 

[wcs]

I'm picking up a lot of negativity here. If you think it can't be done, it won't.

Well, yes, I'm saying I have a slightly negative feeling towards one of the rules, so I guess you'd get that vibe...

I agree that noone who has won a competition by sitting around complaining "how unfair the rules are", or "if only this would be perfect, I'd enter to competition"

I'm saying that there are some barriers placed too high for most men to cross. It's not pessimism I'm proposing, it's reasoning based on facts (which people may disagree about).

 

[Kholi]

It's about the universe. In zombiefest we didn't have to set up the universe, or the rules. We didn't have to say "they are the undead" "cut off their heads and they die". In sci-fest, the first frame of our film was the first frame of existence. To tell a story we had to introduce the world/rules/reality, introduce the characters' relationship to the universe, and then tell a story. The first part almost certainly requires time or voice-over as can be seen in sci-fest.

I understand that voice-overs can be done poorly, and that a lot of skill goes in their production. One the most beloved films of all time used an overt narrator (shawshank). I'm saying the rules almost make it a necessity.



I agree with the theory. My proposition is that I think the theory doesn't apply until a critical runtime is reached, or a voice-over is used.

suck will suck no matter the length, but I'd be willing to sit through another minute of many bad films if one or two films went from 'incoherant' to 'powerful'.

As a writer, I kind of have to disagree with this. I didn't go to school or anything (Though it seems like fun), but I've never seen the reason to have to link a world by voice-over.

The basic idea is that it's YOUR world. If your character belongs there, he or she will be there no matter what the audience understands. This is why you put more time into writing backstory and realizing who your character is and what she or he has set out to accomplish.

Trust me, it can be done without the use of voice-overs. And then again, if a voice-over works, more power to the short.

You can do it, mang. We all can if we really want to. Embrace the challenge and step beyond it. No, I'm not a hippie, either.

 

[wcs]

Write a simpler story so you don't have to establish as much.

I agree. I could tell a simple story in five minutes.... I'm saying I want to tell one with depth and complexity in seven.

 

[Kholi]

I agree that noone who has won a competition by sitting around complaining "how unfair the rules are", or "if only this would be perfect, I'd enter to competition"

You can refer to that as "weeding out the best of the best."

Only the fittest, man. A contest is just that, a contest. While it's friendly and rewarding competition, you should have your sights set on the prize... or you're already failing.

That's just me, though. If I'm not going for the top, I'm not even going to try. And I'm going for the top if I enter this contest. =)

Make it work, WCS. Looks like you have a combative nature-- turn that toward your script and make it happen.

 

[Blaine]

No, I'm not a hippie, either.

LMAO :grin: :grin: That's just what I needed tonight. A little levity. Sometime we're going to have to talk screenwriting. That's my favorite part of the whole process. To me, that is where the real "creation" is.

 

[wcs]

Embrace the challenge and step beyond it.

I've stepped beyond it twice, and come to the conclusions I've stated in the first post.

Please, I hope nobody is interpreting my responses as snobby or mean. This is just my debate face I'm showing. I know this proposal will be met with reasonable disagreement, so I'm trying to focus the debate. I apologize if I seem abrupt. This is just a friendly debate I'm trying to stir up.

 

[Kholi]

LMAO :grin: :grin: That's just what I needed tonight. A little levity. Sometime we're going to have to talk screenwriting. That's my favorite part of the whole process. To me, that is where the real "creation" is.

=P That's why I'm a writer. It's my world, I just let the director show it to everyone.

Feel free to PM me anytime, but more-so after this contest. That way I can let my work speak for itself. LoL. Only one person on these boards has every read anything I've written... not because I don't want my ideas stolen, just that I want to put my best foot forward in front of any and everyone. I guess I'm silly for that.

I hope to see a lot of well written pieces coming out of this contest, especially with the due date so far away. People are already done writing and it blows me away... maybe I'm just slow?