OTHER: First Look: Panasonic PX270

Barry_Green said:
As HDWarrior said, the lens hood pops off with a 1/4 twist. Screw the filter in, pop the lens hood back on. Identical to the HPX250 in that regard.
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Its insane back when i first got the hmc150 that this was my MAIN dream request... Lenscover!! Too bad im not in the market for that anymore
 
We've offered the HPX250 and 255 in our rental inventory as soon as they delivered, and they've been very popular(I know where every other 250 is in town, because I have to sub-rent them often). I think the 250/255 are great for green screen and back of the room(better than our Canon C300's for green screen). The biggest issue I have with the 250/255 is the jerky slow zoom control, same as our Sony EX1. Other issues are no DRS in the 1080P frame rates, no focus expansion while recording and no EVF when HD-SDI out is active.

The PX70 addresses the zoom issue, so that's great. We use AVC-Intra 50 for back of the room sometimes and can use SD cards(the PX270 doesn't have an exclusive on this). Problem is, compared to XDCAM EX, record times still aren't adequate for long duration events. This is where LongG 25 would be useful.

There is something to be said for the simplicity of the 250/255 vs. 270, but I sure like having Varicam menu flexibility. With the PX70 not currently supporting some resolutions and frame rates, lack of spanning with full size P2 cards and concerns about micro P2 cards in a rental environment, it is unlikely that we'll add this camera to inventory at this time.
 
How come some sites (B&H) don't have it out yet and some sites do (Adorama)? I'm confused by the release of this camera (supposed to be march). I met a few people at NAB that have it in their stock and were offering it for less too, especially since I'm looking into picking up two of them. Having played with it for about an hour at NAB, it's very nice. It's everything I always wished my current cameras were. The downside of course is the small sensor. Not that it needs a s35 sensor or anything, but man how I wish it was a MFT sensor. Outside of that, and even with it's impressive performance given it's smaller yet advanced sensor, spec-wise you simply cannot beat it at this stage. I'm just confused about it's release. Also, I'd love to see a detailed review on it. Do people (besides HD Warrior I guess) do that anymore for these cameras?
 
I received my pre-ordered PX-270 over a week ago from Full Compass and have been really impressed with the image quality and the speed of the sensor. There are so many facets to this little camera that I can imagine continuing to make new discoveries with it for years to come (or at least up until its eventual retirement).

Anyway, here's something I can't seem to figure out. While the camera will record AVC-LongG 25 and 50 files, that codec/format doesn't seem to be supported by FCPX (10.1.1), Davinci Resolve, or any of the video conversion/re-wrapping programs I've tried using with it.

I've shot some test footage using AVC-LongG 12, 25 and 50 in 1080/59.94i, 1080/50i, 720/59.94P and 720/50P. While all of these clips in all the different format/line-freq combinations can be viewed in P2ViewerPlus, none of them can be imported by FCPX. When I open the import window and select the P2Card, instead of showing importable clips, the clips show up as Unix Executable Files which won't play or show thumbnails (they do show begin&end tc) and corresponding separate Windows Bitmap Image thumbnail files (which are viewable). When I select one of the clips and click Import, I get an alert saying "No Importable Files, None of the selected files or folders can be imported. Change the selection and try again." And that's as far as I've been able to get with AVC-LongG on FCPX.

I've also tried to convert the files using Davinci Resolve, and a couple of other format converters/re-wrappers. In each case, the moment I select the AVC-LongG files I'd like to to convert, the application crashes.

Have I missed something or is there no way possible to use (or make usable) AVC-LongG footage in FCPX?

I've searched online but seen no mention of this issue. All I've seen related to AVC-LongG is that the AJ-PX5000 and PX270 can shoot using the format. I've seen no mention anywhere of anyone having worked with the codec in post. This is surprising to me since the ability to shoot with AVC-LongG has existed since the PX5000 came out several months ago.

I'd love to hear if anyone else has tried using this codec and if there's a workflow to enable the footage to be used in FCPX.

Thanks!

Dave
 
nope, rain gone, but before I had enough time to play with the cam, ended up on the road. Out on the Appalachian Trail, playing a whole different game :)

back to reality soon though, sorry!

The Irish TRex said:
Scapsinger...

Any luck with this side-by-side comparison? I assume it's not still raining. :)

Thanks!
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FYI, I tried LongG/25 and LongG/50 in Sony Vegas 12 and Premiere Pro CS5, and neither would recognize it (not that I was expecting the old CS5 to be able to, but hey, I thought I should try...) Windows Media Player and Nero Showtime 9 couldn't play them either.

Looks like we need a round of software updates for the various NLEs before these new formats can be used widespread.
 
Barry_Green said:
FYI, I tried LongG/25 and LongG/50 in Sony Vegas 12 and Premiere Pro CS5, and neither would recognize it (not that I was expecting the old CS5 to be able to, but hey, I thought I should try...) Windows Media Player and Nero Showtime 9 couldn't play them either.

Looks like we need a round of software updates for the various NLEs before these new formats can be used widespread.
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LongG works in Edius 7.2 just fine. I also have the lastest PremiereCC on PC, I'll try it a bit later, but it is suppose to work. Frankly, Edius is a lot faster, and I can mix any rate, codec, etc. on the timeline, and everything is realtime.
 
Barry_Green said:
FYI, I tried LongG/25 and LongG/50 in Sony Vegas 12 and Premiere Pro CS5, and neither would recognize it (not that I was expecting the old CS5 to be able to, but hey, I thought I should try...) Windows Media Player and Nero Showtime 9 couldn't play them either.

Looks like we need a round of software updates for the various NLEs before these new formats can be used widespread.
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Barry Green!!! I'm a huge fan and want you to know that your HVX/HPX Book was HUGE for me! Thanks so much for your reply.

It is surprising that Apple/FCP, who is a "partner" with Panasonic, hasn't yet gotten with the AVC-G program yet.

Obviously, we need another round of software updates from the NLEs. But with a camera as complex, as byzantine as the PX-270, what we really need is another Barry Green book to help demystify it! I sincerely hope this is in the works.

Yes, it is a great camera, but there are a number of strange issues to be reckoned with concerning frame rates/codecs. For example, my go to format with the HPX-170 is 720p24pn because it gives you 85 minutes of 4:2:2 video on a 32GB P2 card. Now, with the PX-270, it seems the only way to undercrank the camera below 50fps is to shoot AVC-100. That means you have to use nearly triple the bandwidth as you would on the HPX-170 using DVCPro HD 720p24pn if you want to shoot 720p24 on the px270. So instead of 85 minutes, you get around a half hour per 32GB of storage.

No doubt, with firmware updates, etc, these issues could be corrected, but I have to say it is frustrating that the new camera is missing some of the key functionality of its predecessor.
 
LongG 50 works in Premiere CC as yet you can only transfer footage via the HDMI or SDI socket of the camera via BM media express then import into FCPX.
 
HDWarrior said:
LongG 50 works in Premiere CC as yet you can only transfer footage via the HDMI or SDI socket of the camera via BM media express then import into FCPX.
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Good to know at least one NLE supports one of the LongG formats. (BTW, really enjoyed your camera review!) You didn't Mention AVCG 25 here or on your video. Wondering if it too is supported by Premiere CC or not.

For me the thing is that I often shoot lecture/panel events which are 75+ minutes long and then need to edit and upload them within 24 hours. My clients are happy with 720p and 24fps is a great frame rate for web video. Considering those factors, working with an HPX170 in DVCProHD 720p24pn has been a great codec/setting for such jobs as you have a 422 colorspace at only 40mbps. I can ingest, and transcode in a reasonable amount of time and it works in these types of situations.

So now with all the advances in compression since the HPX170 came out, the PX270 seems to have abandoned the notion of offering any option for shooting 720p/24 unless you want to do so at 100mbps. So instead of reducing the data rate required or at least keeping it the same as before, you're forced to use 2.5 times more memory to store the same amount of footage.

This brings me to LongG 25 which was one of the main selling points for this camera in my decision to buy it. If it worked with fcpX (without having to be captured in real time via ME), it would be the logical codec to use for my events. But alas, it's a moot point at least for the moment.

BTW, for my last event I used AVCI-50 1080i60 just to test the workflow. Importing to FCP and transcoding the edit to h.264s seemed to take 2-3x longer than with dvcpro 720p24pn. So for these jobsI'll stay with 720p in order to keep post-production manageable.

Another issue I'd love to hear from others about is this camera's native frame rates of 50-60P fps. Progressive FR's of 24-30 have been largely abandoned and are only available when using AVCI-100 or SD. If you're shooting AVCI-50 or AVCG-12/25/50, you're stuck with either 50 or 60fps. Is it just me or does anyone else still like using progressive frame rates of 24-30 fps? Is this move from 24-30fps to 50-60fps an emerging trend in camera design that will soon become the standard across the board?

Anyway, will download a trial of Premiere and see how I fare using it with LongG footage.
 
HDWarrior said:
LongG 50 works in Premiere CC
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So I just downloaded the lates version (7.2.2) of Premiere Pro and it found that AVC LongG is not a supported codec (I was able to get AVCI to work). This despite the fact that Adobe says that it is on their Premiere Pro Supported video formats list online.

I called Adobe tech support who had me open the Available sequence presets window only to find that AVCI is supported but AVCG is not. She said she'd look into it and get back to me via email.

Wondering what it is you're doing that I'm not or vice versa. Have you installed any third party plug-ins etc to make LongG work with Premiere?
 
Like I said earlier, GrassValley Edius works GREAT with any codec, realtime, even LongG. I even put Bootcamp on my old Mac, and Edius works great. And NO expensive GPU. Edius somehow does what my Premiere does without the high-end graphics card. I just built a $800. PC. Already had a case and power supply. Spent $500 on a motherboard and i7. Had a SSD from a deal from NewEgg. Smooth and fast. Try the Edius demo and you'll never have to worry about new codecs.

I don't know if I'll every buy a $3,000 Mac anymore. And the new Mac waste bucket needs another box for hardware if you need YUV out to a real TV monitor, etc. Not worth it.
 
JohnnyD said:
Like I said earlier, GrassValley Edius works GREAT with any codec, realtime, even LongG. I even put Bootcamp on my old Mac, and Edius works great. And NO expensive GPU. Edius somehow does what my Premiere does without the high-end graphics card. I just built a $800. PC. Already had a case and power supply. Spent $500 on a motherboard and i7. Had a SSD from a deal from NewEgg. Smooth and fast. Try the Edius demo and you'll never have to worry about new codecs.

I don't know if I'll every buy a $3,000 Mac anymore. And the new Mac waste bucket needs another box for hardware if you need YUV out to a real TV monitor, etc. Not worth it.
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So I guess mac users have to buy a PC and Edius if they want to work with the LongG codec, at least until the other NLEs add it to their supported formats.
 
Sound&Fury said:
So I guess mac users have to buy a PC and Edius if they want to work with the LongG codec, at least until the other NLEs add it to their supported formats.
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You can use Bootcamp on a MAC. I've helped 2 people install bootcamp on their MacPro tower. They tried Edius and was amazed of the realtime power on a low to medium graphics card on their MAC. Took a while to get into the interface, but after that, it was a breeze. I don't think it's worth it to buy that MAC bucket. Save your money if you have to upgrade. Just build a PC. Then you can use Edius or Premiere. And I bought a 3rd party titler called VisTitle. It's like a small AE, and has real 3D titles,etc.
 
Sound&Fury said:
So I just downloaded the lates version (7.2.2) of Premiere Pro and it found that AVC LongG is not a supported codec (I was able to get AVCI to work). This despite the fact that Adobe says that it is on their Premiere Pro Supported video formats list online.

I called Adobe tech support who had me open the Available sequence presets window only to find that AVCI is supported but AVCG is not. She said she'd look into it and get back to me via email.

Wondering what it is you're doing that I'm not or vice versa. Have you installed any third party plug-ins etc to make LongG work with Premiere?
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FYI: So, I just put some 1080p60 clips shot at LongG25 (50Mbps) into Premiere Pro CC (7.2.2) and it worked fine. No issues at all. There is no sequence setting for it, but when I selected custom or even AVCHD 1080p square pixels, it worked fine. When I click on properties on the clip, sure enough it's 1080p60 AVC Long GOP 4:2:2...etc. I'm running a 2011 iMac if that matters. Seems to be okay here. Didn't try AVCi because I'm not gonna be using it.
 
Call me lazy... but does the camera have a waveform and or vectorscope built in? or histogram? (which I am not sure why they put these in other models and not waveform)
side note: sounds like a nice camera for reality TV shows and TV stations with small budgets. Fills the demand for reporters to go out, to do a new article, without a cameraman. sad how this is becoming more common. my buddy does this for his station.
 
This may have been covered, but can microp2 cards be read in SD card readers? It's my understanding that the microp2 card reader just allows faster offloads correct?
 
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