First Look, Panasonic AG-AC90 at DVExpo West

Hi FL Jones

It will also be a good idea to tell people what your intended uses are for the camera. That way you can also work in the suitability issue. If you look at Bob's initial OIS test at the DV Expo you can see that the OIS works extremely well at wide angle but I don't think any camera with OIS could compensate for shaky hand movement at full 12X zoom ..so zoom all the way to max and try to follow a tiny plane in the sky and any camera will have drastic wobbles, even the AC-90.

I would say we are likely to get a surge of posted videos/test early next month as hopefully, delighted owners show off their cameras!! There is nothing better to test untimate operation sucess than a bunch of users who are super critical!! Wait a couple of weeks for some user videos then make up your mind.

Chris
 
I think that the smart buyer will wait a month, and not buy the camcorder until the end of November. If a new product has blemishes, they should be revealed by then.

If you do pre-order, make sure that you buy it from a company that has a 30 day money back customer satisfaction guarantee. Some of the better vendors offer this. That way, you can get your money back if you are not satisfied with the camcorder. Be sure to keep all shipping materials, invoices, and boxes and don't throw them out, just in case you should decide to later return it.
 
FL Jones said:
Just wondering if one of those folks had the opportunity to shoot footage outdoors. .
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FL Jones, Yes I had the camera and did outdoor testing. Some shots are in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7hHxDh5OcM

I am now uploading another outdoor shot: https://vimeo.com/51522892 (probably better quality as youtube: http://youtu.be/JlOJy_BrG2M

We know the downsides from the AC90 and indeed, the biggest for me is no (strong) ND filter As Jan said : It has an inbuild automatic ND. In my opinion it is not strong enough for bright sunlight. So when the sun is bright, (and I want more shallow DOF,) I will use a screw in variable ND.

In my outdoor tests (in bright sun light) with automatic settings, most shots where (a bit) too bright / highlighted. I think this can partly be changed in the settings in the camera (by putting the "auto iris" setting on -4 or -6) , and of course with a ND filter. It didn't have the camera long enough to thoroughly test this.
As I think it can be fixed, I decided to buy the camera. I Will get it the end of this month.

See more information discussion on personal-view.com
 
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Hi Chris & Lance,

Good advice, thank you. I tend to be conservative and will probably wait until its released and more reviews get posted. Thanks again.

FYI....I spoke with a pro videographer friend who freelances for DIY Network, Travel Channel, and does other run-and-gun type work. He currently uses a Panasonic AF-100, and an older Panasonic P2 memory card model (don't remember which model). He intends to replace the P2 camera with the Panasonic 160A very soon. I asked him about the AC90 and directed him to this thread. He was impressed by the camera's specs and the quality of the video clips. He's seriously considering the AC90 as a B roll camera, and thinks it would be a good fit for me for the outdoor work that I want to do.

Frank
 
ChrisHarding said:
so zoom all the way to max and try to follow a tiny plane in the sky and any camera will have drastic wobbles, even the AC-90.
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I am not a steady holder, and even when fully zoomed in, I could hold it quite steady. Off course it has only 12 x zoom, so that helps a lot as well.
 
FL Jones / Frank:
I also was considering the AC 160, AF100, GH3, FS100. I don't mind to spend more money if I would have a much better camera. My conclusions were:

• AC130/160 = 2-3 times more expensive for a bit bigger sensor, ND filters, and a worse OIS (older technology)
• AF100 = has not as good image as the hacked GH2, is less a run and gun ENG camera (no zoom, less OIS, worse handling)
• GH3 - It still has no XLR etc, and I already have the GH2 (and also want to have a camera for more corporate things)
• NEX EA50 - Like the NEX5 / VG20 moire/ aliasing.

Panasonic has a 3 years warranty, that is a plus for me as well. I can also use my DVX100 batteries. See discussion:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/4661/ag-ac90-vs-gh2-video-test-comparison.-/p1
 
Solutions,

Thanks for all of the info. I saw your clips when first posted, but I'll go back and review them again on Vimeo. I've researched many cameras from Panasonic, Canon, and Sony over the past few months. I've ranked features and price to best suit my uses for a camera. The AC90 has moved to the top of my list. It seems to give me the best value for the price. It certainly is not a do it all camera, so I understand that there will be some workarounds to consider. The 3 warranty is also a plus for me, as is the OIS, 3.5" LCD, it physical size, as well as its many pro style features.

Frank
 
Don't waste your time this clip. It is a someone following a small plane in the sky. Worst ever.
(sorry, now most of you will have to see it)
 
FatDaddy said:
Don't waste your time this clip. It is a someone following a small plane in the sky. Worst ever.
(sorry, now most of you will have to see it)
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Sorry that my post of the clip link offends you. Using the words supposedly, and the quotation marks around "journalist/publisher in the industry" and "preview model" were intended to come across as sarcastic, and not to be taken as a true representation of the cameras capabilities.
 
It looks like the same as the ND filter on the HMC 40 and HMC80 cameras..if you shoot solo and often un-attended like me the exposure control is absolutely seamless...best I have ever used and you can literally walk from bright sunlight to deep shade or even indoors and the camera (I have HMC80's) will control the shutter speed, iris and ND filter for you. You can, of course control iris and shutter manually plus in auto you can still make EV changes both up and down with the iris ring or wheel so you get the best of both worlds and best of all you are not rushing to the camera every few minutes to switch in or out an ND filter cos the sun has gone behind a cloud!! A really magic exposure system!!

Chris
 
Barry_Green said:
The ND filter is not electronic. It is a physical optical ND filter. It is automatic, but not electronic.
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THANKS BARRY ! I misunderstood this part. Jan Crittenden also wrote: " If you need a camera with a built-in ND, you need to look at more expensive cameras or deal with the reality of screw in filters"

Probably a stupid question, but how can an automatic PHYSICAL OPTICAL ND filter be seamless? I did not see any ND changes (only 'shutter' like) If it is optical it would mean it has something like an automatic variable ND filter inbuilt?

And Barry: I am not a (technical) expert. I just need a camera as soon as possible. The AC90 sounded good, but as there were no reviews/ experiences yet, I started to do some test on my own, and start some discussions. So in case I am 'wrong' with other things PLEASE let me know!
 
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solutions said:
Jan Crittenden also wrote: " If you need a camera with a built-in ND, you need to look at more expensive cameras or deal with the reality of screw in filters"
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What she's saying there is: you don't get to CHOOSE what level of ND filtration is applied. It's an integrated function of the exposure system, integrated into how the iris works. On the other cameras you can manually switch in a certain level of filtration, but on this one it's invisibly done behind-the-scenes, seamlessly.

Probably a stupid question, but how can an automatic PHYSICAL OPTICAL ND filter be seamless? I did not see any ND changes (only 'shutter' like) If it is optical it would mean it has something like an automatic variable ND filter inbuilt?
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It's totally seamless. You didn't see any changes because it's done seamlessly, but it was definitely happening. The system uses zero ND filtration when the iris is set between f/1.5 to f/2.8. If you "stop down" the lens past f/2.8, the iris doesn't actually change at all -- instead, the system adds a little bit of ND filter to make the same exposure as if you'd actually stopped down the iris. It brings in more and more ND until you hit f/6.4 -- when the iris display reads out f/6.4, it's actually f/2.8 plus all the ND filter the camera can deliver. If you stop the iris down any further, it actually starts closing the iris again.

This has two massive benefits:
1) It delivers seamless exposure changes
2) It keeps the iris in the "sweet spot" for as long as possible, avoiding the crippling issues of diffraction. If they'd gone with true iris changes, diffraction would start mushing up the image as early as f/4 (and, in the red channel, as early as f/2.8!) By the time you got to f/11, the image would be a total mush of soft, fuzzy, out-of-focus nothingness. But by doing it this way, they avoid diffraction entirely down to about f/10. F/8 is pretty much diffraction-free. It's really clever engineering to avoid the serious side effects that could occur, from using such a small chip.
 
Barry_Green said:
There's no possible way it can't work. It's integrated into the exposure system. There is no margin for error, it's inherent in the system.
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Good. The less I have to do the better!! This camera right now is at the top of the list for me. Hopefully we start seeing some video from it soon
 
Barry_Green said:
What she's saying there is: you don't get to CHOOSE what level of ND filtration is applied. It's an integrated function of the exposure system, integrated into how the iris works. On the other cameras you can manually switch in a certain level of filtration, but on this one it's invisibly done behind-the-scenes, seamlessly.


It's totally seamless. You didn't see any changes because it's done seamlessly, but it was definitely happening. The system uses zero ND filtration when the iris is set between f/1.5 to f/2.8. If you "stop down" the lens past f/2.8, the iris doesn't actually change at all -- instead, the system adds a little bit of ND filter to make the same exposure as if you'd actually stopped down the iris. It brings in more and more ND until you hit f/6.4 -- when the iris display reads out f/6.4, it's actually f/2.8 plus all the ND filter the camera can deliver. If you stop the iris down any further, it actually starts closing the iris again.

This has two massive benefits:
1) It delivers seamless exposure changes
2) It keeps the iris in the "sweet spot" for as long as possible, avoiding the crippling issues of diffraction. If they'd gone with true iris changes, diffraction would start mushing up the image as early as f/4 (and, in the red channel, as early as f/2.8!) By the time you got to f/11, the image would be a total mush of soft, fuzzy, out-of-focus nothingness. But by doing it this way, they avoid diffraction entirely down to about f/10. F/8 is pretty much diffraction-free. It's really clever engineering to avoid the serious side effects that could occur, from using such a small chip.
Click to expand...

Is there an iris dial on the AC90?
 
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